Bill: Well welcome. We have a special guest with us today, Alice, and I forgot to ask you how to pronounce your last name. Is it Grossi or Grossi? Grossi. Is it Italian?

Alice: It is, yes.

Bill: So Alice Grossi. Welcome to the True You Podcast, and, uh, this is my co-host, Dr. Martin Kettelhut. I'm Bill Tierney. Uh, Marty is a leadership coach and an author. I'm also an author, not quite published yet, but a, uh, results coach, a compassionate results Coach, and an and, and a certified IFS practitioner. I'm gonna welcome Alice to the podcast as well. Welcome, Alice. I'm gonna read the bio that you provided. And then we will cut loose from all the structure and we'll just have a, have a conversation. Alice is an internal family Systems IFS informed practitioner. In her workshops, she navigates realms of authentic relating IFS and parts work, creating spaces for genuine connections that drop below the surface, individuals to deeper self-awareness and self-love. She's worked as a crew and captain on sailing yachts across the Pacific Ocean hundreds of humans in outdoor education and experiential programs, and has done cultural immersions with Native American families and indigenous communities. She brings this and more of her background into her work, providing compassion and safety for others to delicately navigate their internal landscapes, both in group format. And private sessions catalyst for healing connection, excuse me. A catalyst for healing connections. invites individuals to embrace authenticity, resilience, and life as a never ending opportunity for self-discovery. How was that? To hear your own bio there, Alice?

Alice: Uh, it's like, wow. Yeah, I remember those moments of traveling and I. That's actually what I'm truly passionate about. What I'm hearing you say, like my bio and the the IFS, the providing spaces for people to come together, so it's heartwarming and confirming as well.

Bill: Nice. I'll just mention that I've not known you very long, and honestly I don't know you that well, although I kind of feel like I do. you reached out to me initially because what we have in common is the internal family systems model. And we ended up

Alice: Yeah. Yes.

Bill: I, when I found out that you lived in Bali. Ooh. One of the things on my vision is to have warm water retreats. And so we began to talk about maybe doing a re retreat together over there. And then I saw that it's on the other side of the world and it would take me 24 hours to get there. And I had, I had some second thoughts. without any further ado, let's get into this conversation. Um, Alice, what you wanna talk about and, and I know Marty's got some questions for you.

Alice: Okay. Um, well this podcast is called True You, so let's talk about our true selves. What does it mean to be authentic as well? What does it mean to show up as we are without resistance or. By being with those resistance, like through IFS, we can definitely do that. Like being with the parts of ourselves that are showing up in each interaction and in each moment by being, while being with someone else, also being with myself. So, yeah, I, I am curious about that true version of me, true version of you, true version of you, Martin, and where that is.

Marty: Yeah, well, I'm, you have such an. Interesting bio of, um, places you've been, people you've worked with or played with, and I just wonder you wanted to talk a little bit about how that contributes to, or, or makes more difficult the coming to know of the true you. Do, do

Alice: Yeah, that's a great question.

Marty: in all of these different encounters or, or do they teach you who you are? How does that work?

Alice: Oh, that's so, there's so much to. Let's say, let's start from, I felt for a long time, uh, the need to, um, specialize, to be simple, to narrow down because that, that's what society was telling me it was supposed to be like, and. What you're naming in this moment is like, are you a different person in, in these different situations? And it's like, yes and no. I just contain all these different people, all these different layers and aspects and personalities and um, they show up in different moments. So it's really funny because people who know me here in body, uh, they'd be very surprised about the me that shows up when I'm. Uh, saving a boat, for example, or building up a van, uh, or being in ceremonies with Yeah, my friends, uh, from the states, some Native Americans families and or when I'm with family as well, like. All that comes up in many different ways. There are different parts of me that are coming up. There's different activated parts of me also that I've got to meet during these past years and experiences. And I think they, all these different experiences or these different layers, um, during the years have really enriched me as a human. The, the, the biggest drive for me to started traveling and, uh, was actually curiosity and meeting different people, expanding the horizons, meeting places, just meeting myself in different scenarios. So it taught me so much trial and error. A lot of it, it, uh, it taught me so much about myself and about others as well, and it's something that, here, for example, embodies really present as well as it's, uh, very transient place. Where I'm living currently, there's many people traveling, many people coming here for, uh, yoga, personal development, spiritual growth, awakening, and they all have different origins. They all have different backgrounds, and sometimes we're just in a workshop or a dinner together, and it's 10 people in 10 different nationalities, origins, countries, backgrounds. And we get to learn our differences. We speak a common language and we decide to come together in connection. And then there is just discovering more and more about this human experience and how different and similar at the same time we are. So all these parts that I've myself while traveling, while having different experiences. In different moments with different people and um, there's just variety. There is range. That's a word that I.

Marty: Mm-hmm. see, I see. So, so meeting different people, having different experiences, um, touches on all these different parts. I. And how, and then so where's the true you? How does the true, how do you find the true you in all of that? Given, given that all these parts are being stimulated by all these new people and new experiences do what, you know, how do you, how do you find, you know, get to the, to the essence?

Alice: Okay. Uh, there's two approaches to this question. One is like, purely IFS driven, and the other one is my understanding or how I'm going to reply to this. And I'm gonna say, I, I felt a smile coming up for me when you were asking like, so all these parts, but which one? Like, what is it that true you? I'm like, well, this is the true me. I don't have to one. It's, it's the multitude of this. And that's what gave, um, an exhale, a breath oxygen back to my system, like realizing that I don't need to be one. All this is. Oh, this is, um, oh, this is me. That's the richness. That's the uniqueness and wanting to narrow down the identity to just one aspect of one person. It's, it's very limiting in a way, and it feels constricting as well. So instead of having to focus on like, well, this is my identity, I was like, well, what if I can see like my identity as something broader, like my identity? Can shape, shift, shape. My identity is has a lot of range because there are all these parts and as much as I don't get blend, so they're not taking over without me noticing it, then there is this range. This range is available and they can be my best friends and advisors. And just how showing up, showing how to show up with people and in different situations. So.

Marty: That's, those are very, very encouraging words. I would think that anybody listening to this conversation would, would feel a little bit more home in the world. Like and able to move in the world because of those comforting words that you just gave us. Like you're going to be different. You are gonna show up, show up in multiple ways, and that's you

Alice: Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Marty: on

Alice: And it's actually, yeah, it's actually beautiful. Like, I wanted to, I want to experience the, for you, I want to see the, like all the layers, uh, the beautiful, shiny, love and light as, as there is in the spiritual war on like love and lights. Aspects inside, but I want to see also the raw ones, like the ones that drop you into sorrow and despair and how can I be with you when you are in that state? And the more I can be with myself and those parts of me when I'm in that state, the more I'll be able to be with you without having to fix you or react.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Alice: What your expression of your true you is in that moment. So yeah.

Marty: I was. I was particularly struck by, uh, 'cause I, I have this unrealized dream of sailing around the world or just, it doesn't have to be around the world, but, uh, being out on the ocean, out in the middle of the ocean and you've done that. And so I'm very interested in what that's like. I would. I would think that there would be moments when there's nothing but water on thousands of miles around you that there would be this interaction with yourself that might be very revealing.

Alice: Yeah, I'm feeling a mix of excitement and challenge inside of me. Like thinking back of those moments and those days I could feel it in my body. Um, so it was 2015 and yes, there are days in which there's no water, like there's only water around. Nothing else. Um, I've been sailing with other four people, was all men. I was in my 2020s, let's say 26, 27 years old. Um, and it was other, a, a crew of me and four over 50 years old. And it's been 20 day, 25 days at sea. So we left from Galapagos and arrived in Polynesia, um, IWA and Marquis's Island. And it's been a long journey and yes, there's a, a lot of meeting, there's been a lot of meeting myself in there. Um, a way to that I like to describe it is the ocean is really a mirror. Sailing sail. The, the life in on sailing boats. Something that I like to, uh, organize. I organized it in the past and I'm looking forward to, uh, organize it more is combining what I do in workshops with sailing boats and sailing trips because it, to me, having spent so much time on sailing yachts, there are so many parallels that can be drawn. Between life on a boat and how you act and behave on a sailing boat and relationships or life, the approach towards life. So all that was of Yeah, the, the journey and sailing across the Pacific Ocean, being there in the middle and not having control on, for example, like it's a lot about surrendering, not having control on how the boat moves. You can try to control, you can play with that. At a certain point, there's no more control. So the, it's just, okay, I'm gonna see, I'm gonna go with that flow, with that rhythm, and if I resist it, I actually feel worse. For example, like I get seasick and being with without internet as well. There's no internet for 20. Now there's starlink, so maybe, yes, there is internet, but at the time there was no actual internet. So it's 25 days of, oh, that song, can you remember it? No. And keep having there, there one night finding it and just sharing it with others, um, and meeting everybody in their, at their own edge as well. On their own edge. Because it, it's physically demanding. There is lack of sleep. Uh, there is, there's no escape. Like I'm on a boat. That's what is carrying me and that's what is giving me safety. I cannot go somewhere else, but if the situation that is on board is not safe, which it. If that's the case, then well, I'd have to deal with it. So it's a a lot about how do I relate with myself and how do I relate with others while I'm stuck in this small space

Marty: Right.

Alice: and I get to connect with nature. So yeah, there's a lot there honoring elements and natural forces as well.

Marty: What, what if you were to summarize, like what did you learn about your true self on, on that 25 day Adventure?

Alice: That I had come pretty far. This can sound, can sound cheesy. Um, there was a, a song from Aladdin, a whole new world.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Alice: It's called. And I kept singing it and singing it, like, uh, I can't go back to the way. Uh, it was basically, I don't remember the exact lyrics now. Um, and that's what meant for me. Like, I cannot go back to the way I used to be. I cannot go back to the way I used to live. This is, this is really impactful for me. Some of my triggers as well. I learned, um, that I can abandon myself and that I can shame myself for that. So that those were things that I learned in that moment. Um, and I can overcome it as well. And that takes time, but it still works and that I'm resilient. So there's so much that Yeah. That, that comes. Like if I, I can, I can make something. Challenging also being fun

Marty: Uh,

Alice: and playful.

Bill: Marty, do you mind if I jump in here?

Marty: no, please, go right ahead.

Bill: I've been enjoying your questions and, and, uh, Alice's answers. Um, you said it sounded cheesy, but I love it. I can't go back. I can't that, that 25 day. Sailing trip with four men over 50 years old, and you're in your twenties, you felt safe there. Thank goodness you were safe there. Uh, but going into that, you didn't know, didn't you, did you, you didn't fully know how safe you were or did you?

Alice: No. And of course there are moments in which I could feel, hmm, maybe I'm not super safe and I should voice my boundaries and my needs. At the same time I'm not, because I'm still learning. I was in my twenties, so it's still a lot of trial and error and experimenting, and I don't think it ever ends. But yes, I wasn't sure about that. And one of the crew mates was actually my mom. Partner who's the one who introduced me to sailing, and I want to honor that as well.

Bill: How do I voice my concerns? I heard you say, I just gotta tell you that, uh, 15 minutes before I signed on and joined you in this recording, I finished a men's group that I'm in and I would say the average age in that men's group is. 50, 55, somewhere in there, that's average. And um, interestingly, the thing that we were talking to talking about today was when are in agreement with another human being, it's verbal, written, spoken, or unspoken, and just assumed. And we are in that agreement and then we are in a breach of the, the agreement or someone else breaches it. What happens? Using through the lens of the IFS model, we began to explore that. It was a fascinating conversation. So just to hear you just now say, I don't know that we ever stop learning how to, for example, voice our concerns. Uh, In this group it was evident that that many of the men in the group two. voicing their concerns. When it would've, it would've. And, and the result of that was for every single one of them, it started out with this one small thing. She said that she was gonna do this and she didn't. But I, I let

Alice: Mm-hmm.

Bill: didn't say anything. And that was five years ago. And now we have this mammoth structure that we've built around her lack of integrity and my lack of, of integrity for not being able to call her on it and say, no, you said you were gonna do that and you didn't. What's going on? We need, we need, in other words, to renegotiate and have a different agreement. So that's the first thing that jumped out to, to me.

Alice: Right.

Bill: let me pause and hear what you have to say about what I just shared.

Alice: Yeah, it's, yeah, it's definitely a big piece of, um, learning and the first thing that came up. And maybe it was, my assumption is, uh, it's really hard as well, and that's my story, to be a man and trust that the woman will voice their concern in some specific moments as well. And when that doesn't happen, it's, oh, as a man, I am seen as the perpetrator, let's say as a. I'm taking advantage of this person, of this human. And I'm saying men and women, but just because it's the

Bill: Yeah.

Alice: bigger, um, pole. And so I, I found when I teach, for example, like teach, like honor yourself, honor others, um, this comes up in terms of like if you, if I cannot trust your, no, I cannot trust your yes. And that's something that I learned in Bali wasn't in my awareness when I was leaving somewhere else, even when I was traveling. That was not weird. Like just having boundaries and being able, or having the the right to express them. That was something really new. So having people checking with like, are you open to physical contact for. Yes, okay. This is the amount that I want. For example, just negotiating. Oh, negotiating. Like we can negotiate instead of just playing the game of guessing,

Bill: Yes.

Alice: agreeing to play the game of let's tell each other what is actually true and here present in the moment, even if it's uncomfortable. And that's a lot of practice. And being with the parts that are getting triggered and activated. Because there are all the different ones that are coming in. It's like, oh, what if, like, if, if I don't let it go, then there's a big conversation that is coming in or maybe they'll will reject me.

Bill: Yes, exactly, exactly.

Alice: all these different types of play and how there, I think there needs to be. From my experience, there needs to be a willingness for both to be in those conversations, to both, for both to meet each other and their own parts, and being really clear as well. This is a big piece that I teach, um, in a two-day workshop. Uh, self responsibility. So I cannot make you fully responsible for. Whatever is happening here, I, I need to know that yes, I can express things. Yes, I can request things. Yes, I can voice boundaries. And a lot of that work also starts from here. And so I'm the first one being responsible and then there is this interaction between us. So

Bill: And the

Alice: yeah.

Bill: I love, I love that response. So the irony here is that. When usually, I mean, this is probably the norm. Correct me if you think that, that you've had a different experience and you see it a different way. Both of you please. But I believe when two people come together, and this is happening in this conversation now to some degree, know each other very well. We know each other 24 minutes better than we did 24 minutes ago. But we're still just trying to get to know each other. And part of what's happening even in this conversation is we are negotiating our relationship.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: honest can we be with each other? I love what you just said. If I, if, if you teach me you're not gonna say no you really need to, then I can't trust you. Whether you say no or yes. You said, if I can't trust your no, then I can't trust your Yes. that's kind of the way I process that. Yeah. So if you say yes, but you later you tell me I didn't wanna do that. I was just trying to make you happy. Ah. Now we're, we're at a deficit when it comes to trust. I need to I, and trust simply means do I feel? And now, now I believe this gets us back to the true you. Do I feel safe enough to just authentically be who I am? Or am I gonna have to bring parts of myself forward to protect me? That's still authentic, that's still real, but the person on the other side is gonna have a different experience and I'm gonna have a different experience if I feel like I have to be guarded and protected around you.

Alice: Yeah. And what comes up for me on this when you say, do I feel safe enough to be in this space, for example, to show up as my true self, or do I need parts? This is what I heard you say, what? Or do I need parts coming up for me? Like to shield a big piece of learning for me? And I'm curious if any of you resonate with this. I realized one day when I was having some kind of a breakdown after, you know, an emotional encounter with a dear person to me, uh, I realized that I was trying to look for safety outside. I was trying to reach out to friends and like, okay, you're a safe person to me. And that's why I was reaching out because all this has happened. And while I myself saying that. The, the pro, uh, the thought that got triggered in me was, wait, am I not like, does that mean that I'm not safe for myself? And that was the, that was the, the answer. I was like, no, I don't feel safe within myself. Like, I'm not safe for myself. And so I got like hours afterwards and just spending time with that part of me that was saying, you're not safe to us. There, there's something that is happening here that it's not making us feel safe, and that's why I'm giving you this big reaction in this moment

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Alice: so that you're not gonna put us in this unsafe situation again.

Marty: Wow. Mm-hmm.

Alice: So that piece of that I meant is self responsibility. It's like, okay, I can ask someone else. To be or do something for me, but ultimately in, well, bill, you know, like self, like, is that, do I have parts that are running the show or am I speaking for these parts?

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: And

Alice: So.

Bill: we do need someone else to help us come back into what therapy would call regulation. got a quote that I just found today. I'd never heard it before. And when I, when I read it, I grabbed it and I repeated it in my women's group this morning. And I wanna repeat it now because it's, it fits perfectly with what you're saying right now. This is by, this is a quote by Steven Porges. I. And it is, we are not wired to self-regulate. We are wired to co-regulate our nervous system, craves signals of safety from others to feel safe in our bodies. Whether I fully agree with that or not, I just love the conversation that it starts

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: and, and I kind of heard echoes of that in what you were just sharing. If I, if I have an upset. And then I find myself reaching out to people who I feel safe enough to process this with. And then you had the insight, like the self-reflection, which I didn't have for years. I certainly didn't not have the degree that you do by the time I was in my mid thirties to say, wow, does that mean that I'm not safe to myself? It's a great question.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: How do you wanna answer that

Alice: Yeah.

Bill: what? What would you conclude about that?

Alice: Um, I'm much, I'm much safer

Bill: Right.

Alice: than myself. I love that you mentioned co-regulation because it's such a rich experience anyways to have and yes, sometimes it's really, really needed. And as mammals, just having the presence of someone else, um, in the regulated state can. A regulated state. So yeah. I love that you mentioned that quote. Um, it's also like, it's something that can I, I think like it's something that can be achieved both with words as well as with touch. And touch is a big one in society. Um, as, I mean where and western, but something. So popular,

Marty: Right,

Alice: say, except for with family members and so on. And I'm in a community here where we do contact dance. There is sometimes, um, cuddle puddles, uh, just hugs. People say hi and bye with hugs, and they're long hugs. So there is the desire to connect on a body level, on a physical level, and there is that relaxation, that co-regulation. And something that I learned from my teacher and I use several times during workshops is the breathing. So I invite participants to take a breath and let it out with a sigh that is in a way loud so that we all can benefit from that. Ah, and it brings it back to the body, brings it back inside it. Uh, instead of outside and I'm in a conversation, it's like, oh, I'm all here. And then, oh, let's take a breath. Ah, okay. I'm getting back to myself now and then. So, yeah, it's a, it's a, a distant form of coagulation, but you know, the, these senses, the auditory, the, uh, kinesthetic, all of them, they can be a way to. What's your experience with that?

Bill: Go ahead, Marty.

Marty: it's also, um, we are also part of not just, you know, the human world, but we are also co-regulating all the time with nature. And, and I would say also with history and with spirit, and so there are lots of places like if, if there's nobody around to, to co-regulate with or you don't feel safe with the people you're with, there are other places that I, I derive. Regulation, you know, in, in, in cooperation with nature or, God or, um, even, even, like for example, recently I was, um, I was feeling unrequited love the, my writing, right? I've been writing a lot and, and I haven't found a lot of people that are. Very receptive to it recently, and, and I was sort of sad about that and, and feeling alone. And then the thought hit me that. There are all the artists that came before me and did their work anyway, even though they weren't getting, you know, a praise and, and community at the time that they created those things. It was for me. And so I felt communion with these artists from the past who wrote things that their contemporaries didn't like, but I liked them. And so that was very regulated for me. I was like, ha, I'm home with those. I'm at home with those people. You know? So there, there's, you know, I'm just extending this concept of co-regulating as far as we possibly can.

Bill: Love it.

Alice: Yeah.

Marty: sorry, go ahead.

Alice: Um, I wanted to say, I love that you mentioned nature. I can say that water is one of my happy places and that brings in the, the silence, the contact touch, and, uh, just being supported and sustained, for example. So being immersed in water,

Marty: I so agree.

Alice: that's one.

Marty: I'm a water person, even though I'm not a water sign. I'm an earth sign, but I adore the water and being in the water is so helpful. I agree.

Alice: Yeah. And I love that you mentioned how, just going back and look at the ones that came before you, uh, give you a sense of, Oh, okay. I'm, I'm, in a way, the way I translate it or interpret it is like, I'm not alone. Uh, I'm not the only one who had that experience, and I've had many people before me having that experience, and now I've enjoyed them, their work, so someone else will also enjoy mine, and that gives me a kind of relief. So, yeah.

Marty: Yeah, exactly Right. Um, I wanna go back to something that you and Bill were discussing, um, because to a lot of my clients. When their parts get triggered and they start protecting themselves or fighting or whatever they do in reaction, they think they're doing the right thing, so to speak, because the fear came up. And so the, they just take the fear as the clue to. You know, where, where you guys talk about it so easily, like, oh, a part came up and we had to have a talk about it. Like, for some people that's very hard. How do we move beyond obeying the fear to, to welcoming it and talking through it? That's a great question. Should I go or should I can go. I'm happy to go. Okay. Um, yeah.

Bill: Yeah. Yeah. Please take it Alex. I, I, I'm that Marty gets tired of hearing my place.

Marty: No, never Bill. Okay, so, um, what I'm hearing is, okay, there's a triggered, a triggered, um, part activated part that comes in for a very fair reason. There's fear that kicks in and this part gets activated and triggered and your clients think, oh, well that's the right thing to do. Like there is a good reason and definitely there is a good reason and. What this client is doing probably has an impact that maybe your clients don't want to have or continue having in a situation, in a relationship on themselves, on another person. Okay? So what I share with my clients, for example, is what happens, okay? During, in the moment coming like from zero, it's really hard to notice that is happening, but. Afterwards, going back and noticing, okay, what has happened here? What was activated, and just having that moment of self-reflection afterwards, that's, to me, is the first way to approach it, and starting spending time with that part. Now that the system is more regulated, so there is less activation because the part has already done what it needed to do. And, and then just being curious, of course, do parts work. So getting to know it more, understanding the fear, and go on and on with that process as well as in a more practical way, doing the interactions is be an explorer and, uh, an investigator. What happens before that moment? There, there has to be a built up. There is a whisper that I haven't listened to that I ignored at a certain time, at a certain point. And what the, the way I like to explain it in my workshop is imagine there is a kid that is constantly pulling the mom's t-shirt. And I don't know if this is my example, if I got it from some like somewhere, but this is what I share. Like, okay, there's a kid that is pulling mom's skirt or T-shirt and say, Hey, hey, there's something like Mom, mom. And if I, the mom is not turning towards them, they're gonna scream louder and louder and louder. And then you're gonna, you know, start a tantrum having a tantrum. So this is what happens for me with parts. So where is that whisper? Where is that first poll or second poll that I ignored? And can I pay more and more attention to it? It doesn't come from zero to a hundred right away. So how do you notice that? Can I pay more attention and just sense that? It's coming up. Oh, my heartbeat is increasing. My legs start trembling. I feel anger that is coming in. There's a fire, there's warmth in my chest, and then I'm gonna explode. So all these sensations, for example, in the body, the body's a big piece. 'cause that's where it's felt. So if I notice that I, I also can just. Pause it in the moment and just say, oh, yes, I got it. It's happening. You're, you're, you're coming up and when I say you are coming up, it's like this part of me is coming up. So they come along and then there is this cue of, okay, now that I know this, I'm gonna also voice something in this moment. I think it's better if we. Step aside for a moment and I will get back to you, for example, let's take a break. Is there anything that you wanna add?

Bill: I was still, I was, as I was listening to your answer there, I was thinking, uh. Uh, about something you said earlier in the conversation. I also have a timekeeper that's noticing that we're probably down to just four or five minutes left, left here.

Marty: it's so.

Bill: I know it does. I, I, uh, wondered, you know, I probably would've taken us off in a trailhead, uh, pursuit of the idea of who am I? Who is this true self that, that I'm trying to recover or restore or re remember, or, um, and that's when you were talking about, and Marty asked you the question essentially, who are you, uh, who is this true self? And I loved your answer because I, I won't be able to quote you exactly, but what I heard was I am my parts. And I, I guess the reason I love that so much is because you didn't say, I am my unburdened to self-led parts. You didn't say, I am the self that leads parts.

Marty: a very different answer than we've gotten from anybody who's been a guest on this show so far.

Bill: That's right. That's right. I. You said I am. These are my words for what I heard you say. Would you just, just listen and tell me, is this what you meant by what you said? I am. Those parts, whether they're burdened or unburdened in the moment that they show up. I. All the burden unburden the self as well, 'cause it's there as well. So I'm a combination of like a, a good milkshake of all of them. Um, multiple of parts. And so, yeah. I.

Marty: Yeah. Who is it that something? You're multitudes. You are multitudes. That was, that was the answer I heard.

Bill: Yeah, yeah, like I might, I am whoever is showing up from within my system with the most dominant influence in this moment. And sometimes that's a joyful part. Sometimes it's a really productive part. Sometimes it's a sad part. Sometimes it's a distracted and impatient part. Sometimes it's an angry part, and that is the true me showing up in every single moment, even if I have a performing part, even if I have a part that thinks that I'm a fraud, that's me. That's me in that moment, who I truly am.

Marty: Like the ocean, like, like the ocean is a reflection of you or me. And in the ocean there are places where the water's moving and places where the water's still. There are places where there are scary monsters and there are places where there are beautiful dolphins. Like it's all a reflection of me.

Bill: Which, which, which Disney movie are you taking that one from? I'm Moana. Oh, I love Moana. I definitely, oh, there's another anecdote there for sure. Definitely there. Um, what, what you mentioned Martin, about the ocean is something that I came up with. Um. A retreat a couple of years ago. I was in the midst of all these movements and changes and I was like, I am the ocean. I am the ocean. The ocean contains so much inside. And you can't see it unless you deep in, in this ocean or it shows out when a fish or a shark or a Monterey is jumping out of the ocean. And as you said, it has movement. So yes, I am the ocean. I'm not the waves, so I'm the whole body of water. I, I have places of stillness and yes, external elements can move me. I can react, respond, move based on what is coming from the outside. And there's still a place of stillness or slight movement, let's say, inside the depth. So this is something that gave me a lot of, um, trust and groundedness, even if it's water, but just knowing that I'm that ocean. And yes, moan is a beautiful one.

Bill: I wanna know, um, before we say goodbye, I'd like to know what you're up to that others might be interested in finding out more about how can people find out more about you, Alice, and where, where can they find you? Right. Thank you. So I. Which is growing slowly, slowly. I created it myself. So it's growing. And Instagram accounts, it's where I post as well. I have two different ones. Maybe we're gonna post them, uh, in the description of the podcast. Um, and if you come to Bali, uh, I have workshops here and they're about authentic relating role play with improv and. Internal family systems and another two day workshop that happens, uh, every few months, and it's called the relational range in which we explore in, in all these workshops as well, we explore different parts, different communication style, different ways to interact, show up for yourself and show up for the other person or with the other person how to. Be in connection first with what's inside, and then at the same time with what is outside, if that's fire, and do that while also staying true to yourself, to oneself.

Bill: That sounds wonderful. Okay.

Marty: Do you plan to live in Bali indefinitely, or are you just there for a while and then you're moving on? Well, I've been here for three years, more than three years. But I'll not put that a timeframe to that because I am containing a lot of multitudes. So I don't know. I don't know. And, uh, I kind of like that not knowing for now I'm here and I'm gonna stay here for another as, as much as I desire and want there is. Pleasure for me in living here. Definitely. So

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: lovely. Great. you so much

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: for, for gracing us with your presence.

Bill: Thank you Alice. Let's stay connected Yeah, thank you for inviting me and for this beautiful conversation and your questions and um, yeah, there's a lot of excitement and joy. Thank you.

Bill: and our pleasure. Thank you.