Jae Geller

Marty: Welcome to another amazing episode.

Bill: see how amazing it is. Right?

Marty: No, I, I'm, I'm purposely projecting that

Bill: Okay.

Marty: they're, they are always amazing and we have an amazing guest today, so it just seems pretty likely that it's gonna be a great episode.

Barti: Well, thank you for that. The pressure's on.

Marty: And you are hearing the voice right now, ladies and gentlemen of Barti Borgeault and, um, I might as well read her bio so we all know who we're dealing with here as we get

Bill: Well, wait a minute. Who are you?

Marty: Um, I don't remember who is the true me. This is Martin KeHE. I'm an executive coach and I've written a book recently on leadership called Leadership as Relation, and that other male voice you just heard, I still wanna get back to Barti. Yes, is Bill Tierney, and Bill is an IFS coach and very compassionate, results oriented kind of coach. And, um, so we are here Wednesday recording an episode of this interesting, interesting podcast and today we have bari Google with us. And, um, lemme just tell you a little bit about her before we really hear from her. She's basically a healer, a healing practitioner as a coach, as a coach, trainer, as a mentor coach. She holds a PCC credential from the International Coaching Federation and is a former member of the ICF New England Board of Directors. has certification in mindfulness teaching yoga instruction, reggae practitioner, and a master's degree in consciousness studies and. The last year she co-founded the Institute for Healing and Awakening with Gus Guthrie Sayan, as it pronounced Cyan, cyan. So at the Foundation of Bar's, work is an unshakable trust that we are naturally whole, wise, loving, and good, and that our systems know how to heal. actively on her own journey of healing and awakening and supports others in navigating theirs. Welcome Bar.

Barti: Thank you very much. That was quite an intro.

Marty: You wrote it.

Barti: I'm impressed. Who knew?

Bill: To write it.

Marty: it is impressive. It is impressive. And we were just talking before we went, pressed record here about what a full schedule, a full life you have in trainings and, um, the work that you're doing. So we've got a lot to learn from you here today. Where do you wanna start, bill?

Bill: Well, the couple things that I heard you, even though I'd read that in advance when I heard it read out loud. caught my ear was systems know how to heal. I wonder if that's a good place to start.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: So that's, so what is my question? My question is, can you help me to, I think I understand what that means. I'm not sure that my listeners will know what that means, so I wonder if you can just kind of tell us what you mean, what you mean by it. Party that systems know how to heal.

Barti: Yeah. What I mean by that is that we as human beings innately know how to heal, not in a cognitive way, but that the system, this, this physical body, emotional body that we live in, knows how to heal itself. And a good indication of that is you cut your finger and you don't have to think your way into that cut healing it in a, like the, the cells in your body know how to heal. And I believe that that extends beyond just a cut finger or a broken leg, that emotionally that we know how to heal when. The wound is cleaned. How's that

Marty: No.

Barti: sticking with the analogy? Yeah,

Bill: Yeah, that's our job, right, is to keep the environment clean, sterile, uh, create a, an environment for healing to occur.

Barti: exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So we are, our presence is part of the. Healing environment because we can affect the environment. Um, but the, the healing agent is actually the client's self, the client's presence. Yeah.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bill: bar, you and I have a lot in common, both coaches.

Barti: Yeah.

Bill: We both use IFS predominantly in our coaching practices. Am I right?

Barti: Correct. Mm-hmm.

Bill: And I'm really, really interested in hearing about your experience of being A-P-C-C-I-C-F CER certified coach

Barti: Mm-hmm.

Bill: and, and then being introduced to the IFS model, or correct me, maybe my, my understanding is that you probably weren't using IFS until you were.

Barti: Um, so when I took, when I got trained as a coach, Guthrie Cyan was actually my instructor and it was a, um, a coach training called Coaching with Spirit, and it was brief. It was I think four weekends. That was it. And one of the weekends we were taught a very basic level of IFS. So I have been coaching using the IFS model from the very beginning.

Bill: Oh, you have?

Barti: Yeah. Yeah.

Bill: Okay.

Barti: it's, um, along with other, other, um, protocols, but primarily IFS, I mean, I was just fascinated with it from day one. Um, so your question of kind of my experience of kind of marrying IFS with, with ICF protocols and court competencies.

Bill: You got it. That's what I'm asking.

Barti: Yeah, yeah. That's a bit of a tough question. Yeah. So holding that, um, holding the core competencies of. You know, the ethics of coaching, the allowing the client to lead, um, staying on the agenda, having a coaching mindset, maintaining presence, like all of that. I feel like I stay very true to. I think the one thing that might be stretching or pushing the limits is. From my perspective, clients often come with an agenda or a topic and what's actually saying what needs to happen and what I wanna work on is a part in IFS language. It's a manager, so I'm always holding a meta agenda that the client might not be aware of, of supporting my client in accessing self. So that's not quite in alignment with ICF, that I'm, that I actually am holding my own agenda. Um, and yet I still do it. And I also, the ICF doesn't speak to coaching as a healing modality necessarily. I think that maybe they shy away from that, um, because we are not, um. Clinical, medically trained, and yet I do consider myself a healer. And so maybe I push the envelope there as well.

Bill: Well, you're just reporting reality, I believe. I mean, you, when you work with people, they become more whole.

Barti: Yes. Yes. The, and part of that. Might be, um, the type of people that I attract. I mean, I work with people who are willingly on their healing journey and, um, that's why they seek me out. I, the majority, majority of the people that I work with are already, they, they know. That I use the IFS model in a lot of cases, and if you read my website, it's all about healing and awakening and yeah, it's not, you know, if you wanna get from point A to point B, I'm gonna help you with that. I'm gonna be like, if you wanna get to point A from point A to point B, I'm gonna find out why,

Bill: Yes.

Barti: and then we're gonna work from there.

Bill: Right?

Barti: Yeah.

Bill: Marty, I wanna have you encourage you to jump in at any point, um, 'cause I can completely dominate this interview, this conversation if you, if you don't jump in. So I'm just gonna invite you in.

Marty: Well, I don't necessarily want to impede you.

Bill: No, I don't, I, I'm not saying that that would impede me at all. It's just that I have, I have probably an, an unending list of questions for bar and I want, I want you to have a chance.

Marty: don't wanna impede that. Go ahead. No, but let me just ask one thing if you don't mind. Um. Because you mentioned it a couple times now, um, Barty about your own healing journey, and I, that might be a, a good way to get into everything else, um, is what did you, what was there to heal and how did you heal it and what did that provide for the career that you've got now?

Barti: Yeah. Yeah. I truly believe, and I can't remember who said it, and I should know this, but something to the effect of. It's the wounded healers who are the best healers or something like that. Like, and it makes so much sense to me that until you've walked the road, you, you know, it's really hard to, to support someone else in walking the road. You have to have done it yourself. And so, um, I think it's very important for anybody who's in a healing profession to make sure that they have done their work. And my work. I mean, I didn't have, I didn't have huge trauma in my childhood. Um, I did have some, my father passed away when I was 13 and, um, I was a little different than other than. The other people in my family in that I think I was maybe a highly sensitive person and my father was an entrepreneur and I, um, always knew I was going to college and I went to Boston College and I was summa cum laude and I was a finance major and my first job was with General Electric and their financial management program. I left there. I went to work on Wall Street, and I was a square peg in a round hole for my entire twenties. Just floundering, trying to find my way because I think the wound I needed to heal was that I, um. I thought I had to be someone else or like something else, and I was, I was trying to fit in someplace that I had the capability, but it just felt like I was wearing someone else's clothes or someone else's skin, and so I needed to go through the process of discovery of who I am healed. Those parts of me that felt that. What I was, was wrong or not enough. Um, I didn't have the right skillset, I didn't have the right interests and to really embrace, the mission that I was on, that, you know, that I really wanted to help people and that I have, uh. I have a lot of hope for the evolution of human beings, and I wanna be a part of that. And so, you know, it took me, I was 55 when I took the coach training, you know?

Marty: that was a long time between Wall Street and,

Barti: Oh, it was, yeah. I, it was, I did finance, I did marketing, I floundered, I, you know, and I finally was like. Enough, like this is the perfect storm. I just, nothing in my universe was working because I was not paying attention. And when I finally paid attention, I was like, okay, screw it. I'm giving it all up. I'm going back to school and I'm gonna, I'm gonna see where I end up. And I've just been following a path. That you can't see, you can't see your path until you look backwards.

Marty: Right.

Barti: know, you just take the step, step, step and, and I really love where I've landed. Does that answer your, does that answer your question?

Marty: A little bit. Yeah. And, and, and, great. I I think it's really good the way you answered it too, because I think a lot of our listeners can identify, I can identify, you know, like, what, why does it feel like this isn't me, this job, or this relationship, or these group, this group, group all, you know, and you just, you do kind of just go, well, step by step until. And you find that it's a better fit. Um, you said what, what was the word you used? They pay attention. When you started to pay attention. Was that it?

Barti: Yeah, paying attention to, um. This, and this was the healing, paying attention to what I wanted, paying attention to what feels right to me and what feels wrong, rather than looking outside for validation, looking inside for validation,

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Barti: um, acknowledging my own, my strengths, where I wanted to, um, what, what, you know, lights me up.

Marty: Right. That's great. And so I imagine some of our listeners are going, looking inside for validation. Like that's a whole new idea probably for a lot of us. Is there a, does you, do you need an IFS practitioner, a coach to do that? Or is the way to do that on your own? What does that even like, if somebody's really not familiar with that, how would you say they should get started? I.

Barti: Well, I think different people have different levels of access to what they feel based on how they were raised. Um, what they were taught to value. So many of us are taught to value thinking so highly that we don't have access to our feelings. Many people feelings were, are way too scary. So there's a lot of protection actually feeling it.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Barti: I think that, um, the start is to just find a sense of stillness. Internal stillness. So it's slowing down, it's settling in, and it's starting to notice is there tension here? Am I contracted?

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Barti: What are the emotions that are arising? Is there anger here? Is there sadness? Is there anxiety like. All of those things, all of our emotions and our physical sensations give us information, but we're not gonna feel 'em unless we slow down and we're intentional about it. And it takes practice because, so it's so easy to just keep plowing ahead, plowing ahead, and not noticing, oh my gosh, my stomach is in knots, my shoulders are up to my ears. What is this about?

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's great. I mean, I think we could say, you know, uh. As the true your podcast, and if anybody was listening wondering, well, true, you, where do I start? I think that was a great, you know, that is, that is ultimately where all the, the different paths start from is slow down and really get in touch with your what, what's really going on inside. It's really good. Thank you.

Barti: You are welcome.

Bill: I'm really glad you asked that question, Marty. So heard, uh, the, I heard you say the healing process for you involved discovering who you were, who am I? And I'm, and I'm already interested in that all by itself. How do you discover who you are? If you are who you are? How is it that?

Barti: Well. I think that a parent's job is to be able to reflect who their child is in their eyes, so the child can look at the parent and say, oh, they see me, I can see who I am through them. And I think that that's a really hard thing to do, especially, um, you know, in my family, I was born in the fifties. Um. You know, my mother wanted us to be nice and pretty and have everyone like us and follow the rules. And so how do you learn who you are when you're constantly looking outside to people like me? Are people validating me?

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Barti: accepting me, and, and that's a natural thing to do, but when you're able to, to actually. Look at yourself and say, you know, who am I? What do I like? Am I satisfied with this? Does this make me happy? I think that's how you discover who you are. How does.

Marty: bet there's, there's probably a niche of people. Um, they're listening who, like, well, I'm clear that all that outside influence is not me, but how can I change that? Like, do I do about that? You know, they're still gonna be there thinking those things about me. How do I get beyond this?

Bill: And I heard Barty say on that path to the discovery of who I am. You go inside and you begin to ask, not what do they think or what do they want me to want,

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: is it

Barti: They want me to.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: But who am I, uh, informed by? What do I want, feels right and what feels wrong? I think I, I heard you say that Marty.

Marty: Well, I think that's great. I think that's really important for the our listeners and for me too, to recognize like who you really are. That is the ticket right there. Once you've got that and you just really. Check me on this guys. Really let that run your life, that who you really are rather than those outside influences. The questions about how to, how to overcome this obstacle or how to deal with that person or what to do about the fact that's no money in the bank. All that stuff will get handled through you being true to yourself.

Barti: Yeah, I believe so. I think that when you have, um, clarity on what you're saying yes to, that it gets clear on how to navigate and what to say no to. And I do wanna add also that. I think it's a continu. The journey continues and I, I learned this in my consciousness, um, studies master program. Like the lens I felt like I was looking through was like this, and it was a perfectly fine lens. And then it's like. Holy shit. Like, you know, the lens can be a lot bigger because our lens is, you know, cultural ancestral. Um, yeah. You know, as a woman, uh, you know, there's so many things that impact what we think. Our val, our values are and how we see the world that influences who we think we are. And I think that it can expand and expand and expand. So I would say that, you know, you don't have to have a static definition of who you are because I think that the goal is, or for me anyway, is to continue to evolve and expand.

Marty: Hmm That's great. Uh, I like that. It's reassuring too, like if it doesn't feel quite right, it doesn't mean you fail at finding your true self. It you're still on the way

Barti: are still on the way. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess I have, I have a question for the two of you. How do you define your true self or the true you?

Bill: Do you wanna go Marty?

Marty: Go ahead, bill.

Bill: Well, I think I might like to answer by asking the question I was about to ask and then leading in into how I answer it now, if that's okay. Bar as you're, as you're talking about broadening the lens and involving and expanding, uh, I'm just remembering, uh, at the age of 27 years old, going to my first AA meeting or first few AA meetings and sitting around and kind of being shocked how. Transparently disclosed so many of the people were that were talking in the meetings, and I'd never experienced that ever, ever, ever before in my entire life. Of course, I was only 27 when in, in contrast to the 70 that I am now, that doesn't seem like much, but still, I was on the planet for 27 years old, 27 years before I felt like I had or was in the presence of people that were having transparent, authentic. Truthful conversations as they reported about themselves and what they were feeling, what they were thinking, and so on and so forth. And so in that environment, I felt encouraged to begin to speak for what I wanted and what I didn't want. And, and when I did there was this. Rageful energy behind every expression of what I didn't want. And, uh, one of my first AA sponsors observed that and said to me, it's okay that you want that, and it's okay that you don't want that. And I'm, I'm wondering why you're so angry about it. And, and I didn't know. Then I can, I can tell you now that the reason I was so angry about it is because. It didn't feel like it was okay for me to want what I wanted, and it didn't feel like it was okay for me to, not what I want, but I didn't. And, uh, so now fast forward, um, mean that was my introduction to, to self-awareness, to personal development, to healing and, and, and was able to get and stay sober. And I'm really grateful for the support that I got in, in being able to do that because that basically, uh, put me into the waiting room of what I call recovery. Because to me,

Barti: Maybe five.

Bill: as recovery of my true, authentic self. And one way I found that I couldn't access my true, authentic self as long as I, as the belief system that I had formed about me and about the world was inaccurate. So, and I, and this was the question I was gonna ask you bar, was, can you give, give us like some, some history, like what you talked about, broadening that lens and I'll, I'll answer your question first and then I wanna hear it from you too. For me, the lens broadened at first at 27 and and aa, and then it broadened again like expansively when I was introduced to the work of Byron Katie in 2001. then it felt like I got to 360 degrees. three dimensional with IFS starting in 2016. And as that happened, I, I found myself, my, the fog clearing more and more and more and more. And this continues as, as to who I actually am. And as you say, comes, I know who I am when I have access to the clarity, the compassion, the heart,

Barti: Yeah.

Bill: the unconditional positive regard that, that I might have for people. And I know that I can travel a distance away from it again as soon as I get scared or

Barti: Yeah.

Bill: So there's my answer.

Barti: Thank you.

Bill: You're welcome. Thanks for asking.

Barti: Yeah. So, um, that makes me think how beneficial IFS is in the recovery of who we really are because to your point. And I think we started out in the intro with this is that, you know, if we start out with, at our core, we're all whole wise, loving, good intact, um, that what gets in the way of that are these protective parts or belief systems that we've adopted, that our parts have. And when those, when. Through coaching work or healing work, some sort of work to come to know these, um, these parts of our psyche, these parts of ourselves that are not, um, they don't have accurate information. Necessarily, um, that when we can get to know them and understand them and appreciate them and they can soften back, we do have access to our courage and creativity and compassion and confidence and all those great Cs and the ninth C of choice.

Bill: Yeah.

Barti: Yeah.

Bill: Yeah, absolutely.

Barti: Yeah. And I'll. Can I jump in again? You got me started.

Bill: Yeah. Good.

Barti: I love talking about this stuff, so I'd love your feedback on this. 'cause I feel like we're, we're multiple things like we are particle and wave. We are a human being in a human body, having a human experience with all of our humanity. And we are imperfect and we are part of the whole, we're part of consciousness, you know, that we're, um. In some ways eternal, right? And so how can you hold both of, okay, I'm Bardy Borgo, I'm walking, I live, you know, here in Maine and I've got my life and I got my parts. And when I can expand into everything, I'm also have access to the collective. And I think that's part of our true you too.

Bill: Definitely.

Marty: Yeah. Well that's what I, that's what I mean by the true me that that collected. I mean, every SIL in body. Is from, you know, it's shared with the trees and the street and, and the birds and the sea. I mean, so that's not me. Um, or, or it is me, sorry, in the sense that we're all made outta that same stuff, those same elements. Um, so you could say, well then I am like everything else in the universe. Part of the true me is that I'm made out of these same elements. You could say that, I think that this, this sense that we get when we go within and get quiet and distinguish what's external I, there's some little seed in there that tells me that this consciousness, this awareness of self. Has to have been there from the get go or it wouldn't be there now.

Barti: You didn't go buy it at the five and dime. Yeah.

Marty: Right. They didn't invent it in 1934. It's, it's, that's in the mix from the beginning, and we are born of it. Like you said, you know, I, I can't tell. It doesn't seem like it started with the Big Bang. It seems like it was here before then, and it'll probably be. Alive, this consciousness that we are foreign, you know, as far as I can see into the future. I, I agree with you. It seems eternal now. I can't say it is because I haven't been to the end of time, but it sure seems like it. Uh, so that is what I mean by the true me. And, and so I, I think your question that you, gotta get quiet. You gotta get quiet to have any. Inkling of that.

Bill: And that a noisy internal world is the biggest challenge I have faced in my spiritual path. How to, how to get quiet. I, I, I have found that I get there through getting interested.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: by, by consciously, intentionally pointing my, my awareness and attention on something in, in something in this present moment, just bringing it all of my attention, it, it gets me there, there.

Marty: That's a, of wisdom. That down through all of the different ways that people teach meditation. There's gotta be a focal point, something focused, otherwise we're

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: Right thought. So there's gotta be something to focus on, you know, to let, so that the thoughts can come and go. But there's something that's holding me here in this moment.

Bill: Yeah,

Marty: I think, I think that's a good, that's a really good thing to point out, bill.

Bill: I wanna go back to my, first of all, Marty, do you feel like you've answered as fully as you'd like to, who your true self is?

Marty: Never.

Bill: I wanna honor Barbie's question and give you an opportunity to fully answer it.

Marty: No, I, I think it's really one of those things like, like I love that you said it. It's, it's, it's not like you arrive, it's ongoing. And so I'm, I'm happy with, um, the seed consciousness, you know, 'cause that it's, I'm not gonna come to the end of that question today.

Bill: What I say to my clients is that, and it's very similar to what you're saying. Bardy that I believe, and I got this I think from Unity Church 35 years ago. I believe that who we are is whole, perfect, incomplete, and um, that's who we were born as. That's who we were before we were born. That's who we've always been since then. And that's who we will be the day we die and thereafter. So that doesn't change. It never changes. And it's similar to something that we say in IFS, which is that the self can't be harmed. Self can't be damaged. This who we truly are, no matter what has happened, cannot be damaged and cannot be harmed, which was when I first heard it. I thought, that's impossible possibly be,

Barti: Let's try it out.

Bill: well, I certainly had tried plenty by then and it felt like who I was had been plenty damage and plenty harmed. And I came to realize, oh no, those were parts of me. In fact, I've had, I have. Uh, sacrificing parts that have sacrificed their whole lives so that I can go on and survive and that that hold all of that damage and that harm. And now that I've done enough healing and now that I've learned to access who I really am thanks to IFS and, and mentors and teachers like you bar, know how to go back and I'm learning, continuing to learn more and more about how to go back and rescue those that saved me.

Barti: Mm mm Yeah. What a beautiful way to put it. Rescue those parts that saved me, because oftentimes we don't like those parts, but. They, they what? They, the jobs they took on. It was a very intelligent choice of job at the time, and we need to honor that.

Bill: Yeah, given the resources that they had at that time to work with and the fact that they continue, no matter how old I've gotten, they continue to use the only resources that they had at that time

Barti: Yeah.

Bill: to try to help.

Barti: Yeah. Yeah.

Bill: Marty, you were.

Marty: there. But would you, would you guys say that they, that that intelligence that they have to, to move you along the path, toward the true you that, that that's what part of what we're talking about that is our truth. That is. That consciousness that's that's in the universe already be before our bodies got formed. Right. and we'll be there after they're gone. The um, and I think that's really, this is where the, like the spiritual tradition and the therapeutic tradition, I think come together in a good way. Because, you know, all parts are welcome because. They are participating in this evolution of consciousness, and they're, they're all working us, our evolution and coming into our, our full conscious, our, our truest self. you, would you put it that way?

Barti: Are you asking me or Bill? Okay. Um, I don't know. As I see it exactly that way, what I, what I meant by that was that at the time, their choice to protect the vulnerable parts of us. When we were 3, 5, 7, 9, um, by avoiding or getting angry or, you know, whatever, or drinking or whatever the behavior is in the moment that they took on that role. It was intelligent because it's. It, it did protect the vulnerable one. So there, I think I agree with you that there's intelligence in the system. I think that what happens is that they get stuck there and they, they keep doing that job without ever being able to reflect on the fact that it's no longer needed and that it's actually not successful later on in life. Um, so, so there's initial intelligence, um. And there's the need to recover from,

Marty: Yeah.

Barti: know, we have to go and recover. The one that was vulnerable, that we weren't able to take care of because we weren't fully formed, self wasn't, uh, fully. In, I don't know how to say it. I, I always stumble on this part, like, it's like we didn't have the hardware, you know, we weren't developed enough for self to be fully present, and so these parts had to take over and now self can manage things and that young vulnerable part can be rescued. The part that has this job that is no longer actually working and it's actually causing harm, can have the opportunity to, to do something else that would be more in align with what their natural gifts are. So, um, I do agree that there's a natural intelligence in our system.

Marty: Can you hear me?

Barti: But I think there's a nuance in there that I hope was clear around the initial intelligence of taking on the job and how there is later on the opportunity to actually shift things because that initial intelligence is no longer appropriate because we're not still in the same time or place.

Marty: Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes, it makes sense to me. I mean, I also see that going on in. Larger entities besides individual people to ICF is evolving as it recognizes it's better, a better way to serve its purpose,

Barti: Yes.

Marty: right? Um, the United States of America is doing the same thing, right? The Christian Church. You know, is, is similar. You can see like, oh yeah, it, it has certain old things that don't work anymore. It kind of needs updating. And I think our, our new Pope, if I could say our here, I'm not but I wanna claim him for my own is onto that. Um, so that's like, things do get encrusted like the river, you know. Digs. Its, know, its path and then it keeps that, unless something, you know, it needs to respond to something and, and reshape itself. that makes sense to me.

Bill: Which is one of the things that I've always loved about IFS is that it all makes sense at some level. A part is doing what it does because it makes sense to that part to do it. And if, and if it gets new information, it's going to change what it does. But, here's the temptation, uh, in when facilitating an IFS seven is. To grab onto that agenda you were talking about Bardy and, and bring that into a session and give the part, the new information before it's ready to hear it.

Barti: Yeah. Or, or it's, it's another part that wants that part to change. And that's the, that's the agenda. And it's like, okay, now we're just taking sides.

Bill: That's right, yeah. Yeah.

Barti: Which, which.

Bill: point. The other thing I wanted to say about, about this intelligence that we're talking about in terms of what informs the survival strategies that parts take on, they're, they're, they're mimicking, they're copying what they see in the environment. Most of the time, if, if dad brooded and withdrew when there was tension in the house. I'm gonna have a part that learned how to, learned how to brood and and withdraw. If mom was critical and damning, then I'm gonna have a part that's critical and damning because that's the resources that were being demonstrated in the environment that at the time that the wound occurred that needed to be hidden away and managed.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Barti: I think there's also only so many strategies. You know, you can fight, you can flee, you can fawn, you can endure. Um, you, you, you know, it's, it's like, and if you look at any family. Each child has their strategy because, um, if, if you are the one that endures, I'm probably gonna be the one that fights and

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Barti: can't have the same strategy, it's not gonna work.

Bill: Right,

Marty: Yeah.

Barti: yeah. I just, I mean, I think that there's probably in nuances that are endless, but when it comes right down to it, the strategies are, you know, archetypal, right? The critic, the, um, cheerleader, the. Whatever.

Bill: Yeah.

Barti: Mm.

Bill: Yeah, exactly. A couple things I wanna, um, mention just to kind of catch up on some open-ended things that happened in this conversation so far. And then I, I think we need to start moving in the direction of beginning to wrap up. Just we're about 42 minutes into the session now. Uh, wounded healer, uh, it is the wounded healers that healed best. You mentioned earlier, Marty and I looked it up. Um, and it's Carl Young

Barti: Yeah, that's what I thought, but I didn't wanna misquote. Okay, great.

Bill: So it says here, the term is attributed to Carl Young and draws from the myth of, is it Chiron Chiron, Chiron, C-H-I-R-O-N-A. Centar, who despite his own incurable wound, became a legendary healer. Here's the cool thing though, is that that we have are absolutely curable. Uh, trauma. We can heal, we can heal drama, and, and I've never found. more? I'm sorry, I'm walking away as I'm talking. I've never found anything more efficient than IFS in healing trauma I've been in therapy for close to 30 years. Um, the other thing if I, if I could add,

Marty: I just one

Bill: I.

Marty: uh, um, I don't know, footnote to. The wounded healer has to do his work to it. Just because you're wounded doesn't make you a healer. So I, I know you're not saying that, but I,

Bill: Yeah. No, that's good.

Marty: dad was a wounded person who went into a healing profession. I, he became a pastor. He wanted to do his, you know, do his best by people with his career. And he was very wounded and, um. My mom and I read that book by, um, angry Noun about, called the Wounded Healer together and talked about my dad after he passed on. Uh, I just started to get shaky and um, you know, that was one of the things we had to, had to to terms with like, yes, he was wounded and he wanted to be a healer, it was also in his way because he hadn't really fully. Found his true self.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Barti: Um, how I look at that and, and I can, I can feel how hard that is for you right now. Um, and how I might say it is that, um, it's a hero's journey.

Marty: Hmm.

Barti: This becoming a wounded healer. You know, you have the wound, you go to the you, what is it, the dark soul of the night and you come out Yeah. The, yeah. And you come out and at that point it, you're a wounded healer because you have healed,

Marty: Mm-hmm. Right.

Barti: you have been wounded, you have healed, and then you can support the healing of others. I think that's that. That's the distinction.

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: I, that's very well said. Thank you.

Barti: Mm mm

Marty: So anyway, I interrupted you, bill. Please go ahead.

Bill: Well, I'm glad you did. I'm glad you slowed that down 'cause there was more to be, to be said around that and I'm wondering if, if there's anything else that needs to be or wants to be said around that,

Barti: Can I say one more thing?

Bill: please.

Barti: Um, back to this idea of things evolving, emerging like that, that this is, everything is emergent, right? And I think that the coaching profession is as well, and I, you know, I think when you mention the ICF is, is, um. Moving at the pace that it can to keep up with where coaching is heading. And I believe that coaching that, that we are uniquely qualified to support the healing of others. And I, and I feel, I can feel that that's where at least part of the coaching profession is going. And I, and I hope it continues in that way.

Bill: I'm glad you brought that up again. I, because I, that reminds me that I did wanna circle back to a comment that you made about that. So when someone comes to you. They, they, they know that you're a healing coach. They already know that you said that they, that, that you attract people that recognize that you're a healing coach. Uh, and, and yet you're a coach. You're not a therapist and you don't identify specifically as a healing practitioner. You're a coach. And to me, what makes a coach a coach is someone that helps a person who has struggled to, to make the changes or ac make, accomplish the things they wanna accomplish. that they need help and support along the way. So when they come to you, they come with something that they hope that you're, you're gonna be able to help them with.

Barti: Mm-hmm.

Bill: your comment earlier was, a manager or that's a protector. That's probably a manager that's bringing that agenda. Can you say more about that please?

Barti: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, oftentimes these, these managers, these, these parts get people into coaching or therapy and that's a really wonderful thing. When you dig deeper around what they come to you for about. What will you have when you get that and what will you have? When you get that, you get to what they are really looking for and you get to the deeper work. And so when you do the deeper work, and I can't remember which one of you said this in the beginning. When you get to the deeper work and you find your access to self, the answer to the presenting problem becomes a lot easier.

Bill: Yes.

Barti: Yeah.

Bill: And that seems almost magical, doesn't it?

Barti: It does.

Bill: so, so one of the, I, I thought that we probably had more parallel paths than we, than we do. I was surprised to hear and. It makes sense now that I know it, that right from the beginning for you, coaching included IFS, but not, so for me, I coached for five years before I was introduced to IFS and so I, and I'd gone through an ICF training in 2015 and 2016, and ironically. was that training that contin completely took my legs out from underneath me to the point where I had zero confidence that I could continue to be a coach and, and so ended up in therapy to try to heal and get my confidence back. One, once I'd gotten that gotten back. Confidence, capital C, confidence, not based on merit or uh uh. How I earned it. Um, then I began to experience of IFS and realized that when my clients come to me with a problem, even though I was trying my very best not to fix that, for them not to solve their problem for them,

Barti: Hmm.

Bill: I had a, a coaching part that would try to give them the all the right questions so that they could find the answer that I already knew. That I already had for them. Whereas, uh, as I've learned how to use IFS starting in about 2019, uh, with the level, with level one and the IFS Institute, I realized, oh, all of that can be just set aside. Once the trail has had, has been established, we know what parts are involved in the problem that they're trying to solve. By the way, the problem always ends up being something that's unsolvable because it's from the past. It's only healable. It's not solvable.

Barti: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Bill: so that's very cool. Yeah.

Barti: So,

Bill: is presented is not really what's, what's going on usually.

Barti: yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a symptom. It's not the problem.

Bill: Right, right.

Barti: Yeah. So I, I think that, that, um, what, what makes coaches so uniquely qualified is they, um. In relationship with the client from a nonclinical perspective where we're not looking for what's wrong, we're not trying to diagnose, we are here to support, to be respectful. Particularly if a coach that uses IFS you, you know how deeply you need to respect someone else's system and you're gentle. You treat everybody. Oh, I have this thing hanging here. Speak to all people as though they are the wisest, gentlest, most beautiful beings on earth for what they believe they become. And I believe that that's kind of the magic of IFS, is that when you treat all parts with respect, knowing that they, they have noble purposes. And you build those relationships with the, with your client, with their parts, that that's where things start to shift.

Bill: Yeah.

Barti: And, and coaches are trained to be present, to be curious, to not have their own agenda. We are uniquely qualified and when a coach can really be trained in finding their own internal ground and stillness. They can hold whatever comes up for the client and still be there in relationship.

Bill: Yep. Yep.

Marty: That's a great, uh, could we end there? That was perfect. I mean, I wanna have you back, I don't mean I don't wanna talk to you anymore because we've only just begun, that was so beautifully put. And since we are close to time, I'm saying we should draw the line

Bill: Yeah.

Barti: Okay. Okay.

Bill: sounds good to me. Although I do want, um, listeners to know how they might, um, learn more about you bardy, or what services you offer. So would you wanna take a moment and just tell folks where do they find

Barti: Sure, sure. So, um, there's two things that I'll give a little plug for. One is if you wanna learn more about me and what I offer, my website is all one word move beyond the edge.com and that's, um. Uh, the name of my, my business is Beyond the Edge. So beyond the edge of what you think is currently real or possible. You know, you get to the edge and it's like, oh my gosh, there's no edge here. Um, it just keeps going. Um, and then, uh, my business partner, Guthrie Cyan and I, um. Co-founded the Institute for Healing and Awakening, and we offer trainings for practitioners, uh, coach trainings, IFS trainings and trainings to support people to, um, have the capacity to, to be more, more still and present in, in relationship with another person. And you can, uh, look at, uh, its institute. It's called Healing and Awakening Institute. That's the URL?

Bill: Hmm.

Barti: Yeah.

Marty: An Awakening Institute.

Barti: and Awakening Institute.

Marty: Okay.

Barti: Yeah. And we have, I think we have like six or eight programs coming up in the next year. Um, so there's, there's lots. There's lots to pique your interest maybe.

Marty: Nice.

Barti: Yeah. Yeah.

Bill: So I, I just really wanna thank you. I, I didn't ever mention in, in the episode here that the, the way it came to be that you're a guest on our podcast is that you are one of the trainers in the training that I'm in now. And, um, when I first signed up for the for coaches training that you're leading with Guthrie, I did so because, uh, Rachel Parks had also registered for that program, I'm a big Rachel Parks fan, so I'd already been certified in IFS before I showed up, and, uh, wondered, in fact, had a conversation with Guthrie even after I'd paid and signed up for the program. Was this a mistake? Should I have done this given all the training that I already have? And his his answer was, yes, no. Uh, we'd love to have you in the program and I think that you're gonna learn some things. I just wanna say, oh my God, have I learned some things? This has been fantastic training that you, that you two offer, and, uh, I have just the highest respect for the two of you. Uh, and consider you both to be mentors and I'm just honored that you, that you agreed so readily to come on and be on the podcast. Thanks bar.

Barti: well thank you so much. I was honored to be here. I've never written a book. I'm like, I don't have a PhD. I'm like, oh, wow. They want me, so thank you. I was very honored to be here.

Bill: Well, you're making a difference in the world for me and I know for a lot of other people, so

Barti: Oh, well thank you. I appreciate that.

Marty: not, it's not your credentials. It's your, it's the true you we

Bill: there we go. That's it.

Barti: Hopefully that's what you got.

Bill: I believe we did.

Barti: Yeah.

Bill: everyone. Thank you Bar. Thank you Marty.