Jerry Waxler

Marty: Welcome back to the True You Podcast. I'm very happy to be here today with my co podcaster, bill Tierney, who is a compassionate results oriented IFS coach. And we have a very special guest today. Um, Jerry, Waxler is with us. Really interested to talk to you. I'm gonna read your bio first, but, but just say hello so people hear your voice.

Jerry: Okay. Hello everybody. Welcome. Glad, glad to be here.

Marty: Cool. Great. So Jerry Waxler hit bottom early in adulthood when he began a long climb through recovery, self-help therapy and wisdom traditions. At 50, he returned to school and became a therapist, only to discover that to help others. He had to keep growing. Memoir Reading provided insight into the vast library of human experience offered in memoirs and writing his own memoirs. Helped him rebuild shattered segments of his past. His continued interest in 12 step recovery and his ongoing research into the many branches of psychotherapy led him to internal family systems, he sees as a pinnacle of his journey toward mental wholeness. Now 54 years sober life work is helping others grow through therapy, writing, and the transformative power of turning private memories. shared stories that process is what we're gonna talk about today.

Jerry: Cool. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for the introduction. I'm looking forward to it.

Marty: My pleasure.

Bill: Jerry. Jerry and I, uh, Jerry's my writing coach, so I'm writing a memoir and I've been working on it for a year or so. Uh, and uh, I met Jerry and found out he was a memoir writer and read one of his books. I think it was How I Learned to Love the World. Is that correct?

Jerry: Right

Bill: Yeah. How many books have you written, Jerry?

Jerry: five.

Bill: Yeah. Great. By the way, I highly recommend the book that I read. I haven't read the others. I'm sure it's, they're equally as good. And you're, you're currently revising a book that you've written in the past, and which one is that? That's the, the instructional one. Right.

Jerry: right. Instruction. How to book about learning to write a memoir. Um, updating it, it was one of the first books I wrote, so kind of adding some current wisdom to it.

Bill: And. You are doing groups now where you're helping other memoir writers to, uh, go through the process and writing their own books? Yes.

Jerry: Correct. Yep.

Bill: So, uh, I just can't say enough about how helpful you've been to me as I've been writing my book. Uh, I, I tend to write. Yeah, without, without your help. What I tend to do is write in a way that I'm basically just reporting what happened and it's, it's concise and it's, but it doesn't keep the reader engaged. You've taught me and you keep reminding me that there's somebody that's gonna read this book and that I should probably treat them to what they wanna know. Like, how did I feel? And, you know, what was the setup for this scene that you're describing right now? What, what was the impact and the importance of it? And it's been a, a wonderful education. Uh, uh, and I can't even imagine what the, what the, I'm so proud of the book already. I'm not finished with it nearly, but, but I feel so proud of what you and I have been building together. So I want to thank you right here in public for all the help that you've given me.

Jerry: Awesome. Thank you so much. Uh.

Bill: Marty also is an author.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Yes, but not of memoir, uh, not yet of a memoir, although there are pieces of, of, you know, there are stories told in my books about my life, but not a memoir per se. I'm curious. Um, 'cause I know people have been writing memoirs since they've been writing pretty much. Um, has the purpose or style or about, is there anything interesting to notice about the history of memoir? What writing itself?

Jerry: Right. Uh, well, fascinating question and certainly from here, here and there, uh, people wrote, ordinary people wrote memoirs, but, and for most of the 20th century, one assumed that if you were gonna write a memoir, you were famous or powerful. And something shifted in the mid nineties where. And it, and it's kept building from there, uh, from the mid nineties to the present a genre of writing, a genre of of book. in which ordinary people tell the story of developing their own emotional, uh, journey and kind of laying it all out and going from, these are, there's certain rules to the genre. So in the, in the sense, uh, that I am fascinated memoirs, it's a genre that has, uh, a, an elevation gain where during the. course of the memoir, uh, the character is working to develop themselves um, you know, so obviously relevant to anyone in recovery or anyone who comes to an IFS, uh, coach or therapist is like, I want to improve in some way. And, uh, memoir is the story, a story after story thousands. You know, it's, it's grown from a tiny trickle. In the nineties to a kind of a cultural phenomenon where people are, are up opening themselves to each other by, by finding and developing the stories of their, of their self-development.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, I mean, we do that a little, we do it in our, in 12 step meetings. We tell our story, um, from many different angles, you know, many different times depending on, but, but we're really, but we're coming to a state of completion with it slowly but surely with every telling.

Jerry: Absolutely, and, and I, and I love that, uh, parallel with the 12 steps and it certainly is a life review. Steps is certainly built around life review, and I'm getting really interested in, in this emotional sobriety concept, which kind of comes onto the kind of the, the end of, uh, the higher end of the 12 steps, um, goal.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Jerry: Uh, the, the memoir revolution is simply a different way of coming, coming at the same problem. So while you have an, uh, person who's, uh. a problem with alcohol and then finally hits bottom and then goes to 12 steps and finds this is path is a way towards their own wholeness. Uh, a completely different pathway towards wholeness might be someone who, like me, says, uh, you know, I'm 50. I have no idea what my earlier life was like. I know that I'm missing. Uh, some wisdom because of my gap, the gaps in my, uh, in my self understanding. I wanna understand myself, so I'm gonna look at this, uh, memoir as a structure that can help me understand myself.

Marty: Yeah. And then, and then Bill mentioned like the, the more writerly elements that come into that. So, um, curious about how, 'cause I would think, given my own writing, which again has not been in the memoir genre, that those kind of. Um, that kind of feedback about the writing itself helps me to myself better, and I now does, does that, would you say, bill, that having these, you know, this tutorial in how to write the memoir and I, I, I don't mean that in any offensive way. I mean that as a complimentary way of saying it,

Bill: Yeah. Yeah.

Marty: but that has been helpful in bringing out completion and recovery.

Bill: It has opened up several cans of worms. The more I write, the more I remember, the more I, I remember, the more I write, some of it's relevant and belongs in the book and some of it doesn't.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Uh, and yeah, so once it, once it is stirred up in me,

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: then, then what's required is either the management of what's gotten stirred up or the completion of that.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: And so I've been doing a little bit of both.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: been managing and trying to, trying to minimize the impact of it. Like, yeah, that happened and it was upsetting and I see. That I still feel a little bit upset by it now that I review it and re revisit it.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: And so what do I wanna do about that? And if there's not a conscious choice to do anything about it at all, then it get kind of gets, it stays in me and it stays in my energy as I interact with others in my current everyday life. So I have, yeah, I've, I've been called upon to really use the IFS model that I've been so well trained in and have been so well supported in. To get some completion around some of this stuff that I realized by writing about it is still incomplete.

Marty: Yeah, it, and, and then I'd ask you, Jerry, like, does it feel sometimes like you're leading someone through a therapeutic process or, or do you stay away from that?

Jerry: Well, um, that's, uh, so it's a little tricky to answer that 'cause of the question itself. A therapeutic process contains a, a fuzzy, uh, concept. So, so I think that, uh, like what Bill was saying about, uh, getting in touch with. Of his past. So if you're like in 12 steps and you're talking about making amends or something and you're like, oh, I remember that one incident and it was so awful. uh, you know, people were really hurt and it was, you know, I need to make amends. That's, um, that's taking that memory as a package, like a memory, like, uh. That's coming to you in this little bundle of nervous, like whatever nerve impulses that memories are. And when you try to write the story of it, and I'm not saying, oh, you have to turn it into a great story, that's gonna be wonderful in a, in a, in a literary journal. I'm just simply saying, turn it into something that sounds like a story with a character on a journey. And if you turn that incident or that memory and you slow down and you allow yourself to be with it, you allow yourself to develop, uh. External and internal insights into what was going on in that situation. You, know so much more about you as a person. You can't make amends for a thing that's still at that superficial level,

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Jerry: you, if you unpack it and you see your own emotional dynamic.

Marty: Right.

Jerry: Uh, then, then the whole story becomes alive. what's really interesting from an IFS point of view is that you're, you're allowing yourself to completely witness this moment in time, but at the same time, you're unblending from it because you're now the author and the, and the original situation. Was the character in the book. So you've done all of these things, all, all wrapped up in one. You've taken a literary goal. I wanna explain. The literary goal is, I want to explain what happened in that moment when all that stuff was taking place. And in order to explain that clearly I need to build sentences and, and, and scenes and I need to kind of explain what people were doing. And then I also. Where memoir gets really powerful is that I also need to go within myself and understand what I was feeling and thinking at the time. And so you've done all of this work. I. Which on one level looks like a literary endeavor. I'm just gonna write this as a story, but on a whole other level of self understanding and connection. So now you're also building this scene now allows connection people who might read it, or if you stand up in a meeting and now you can talk about that situation. But now you have all this articulation about it that you can bring it out into a. Uh, much fuller, uh, view of it.

Marty: Very good. Very good. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, I know that you wanted to, uh, walk us through some, some points about, this whole process and, um, is that the, is that the nebulous word I used before when I said therapeutic process? Was that the, the,

Jerry: Oh no. You know? Yes. Right? So no. What? No. You said what? Uh, do I feel like I'm leading people in the therapeutic process? Well, I click, therapy, right? I mean, if you're,

Marty: see. I see. Okay.

Jerry: that's all

Marty: Fair enough. Fair enough.

Bill: Right.

Jerry: so.

Marty: Um, so maybe we should dive into that. 'cause I, I, I see there's a lot in this. Um, so how do we start that?

Bill: I,

Jerry: Did

Bill: I've got an idea that I might just read what you've put into each one of these bullet points and have you expand on, on it.

Jerry: Okay. Uh, be, let me just set it up, um, when were talking about this podcast. Um, it's the True You podcast and I was trying to imagine, um, bullet points as to how memoir writing out the true you or, you know, the uh, the IFS, uh, higher self. so that, so those eight points are kind of designed to help me articulate that.

Marty: Awesome.

Bill: you, would you rather rather read each point and expand on it yourself? Or would it be helpful if I read it and then had you hear it and then respond to your own words?

Jerry: I'm good. Either you can read it. Yeah, sure.

Bill: Okay, let's take turns. Marty, I'll take number, I'll take the odds, and you take the evens. How's that sound? So I'll start with number one. Do you have it in front of you there?

Marty: Um, I do. Uh, where? Oh, yes. Okay, now I see Yes, the numbers. That's what I was looking for. Go ahead.

Bill: Alright. All right. All right. So number one, Jerry is writing a story helps you reestablish the chronology of the self lower, lower S, not capital. Yes. Right.

Jerry: fair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. Yeah, that works. So I'm, yeah, I don't always make, uh, I'm not always, uh, perfect with that distinction, but yeah, chronology is so important because I. Um, uh, all of us human beings have our past stored in this chaotic kind of random framework of memory. So memories jump around. They can remember one thing 10 years ago and another thing 30 years ago, something last night. And memories are just a complete tangled mess. So when you look back on your life and you see these big events. You don't have a framework. I mean, literally no framework. There's just like, oh, I remember that. Um, maybe I'll remember where I was living at the time, or maybe how old I was. But when you start to put the things together into a a memoir, you're, you're unpacking the time sequence. So now, instead of this jumble of stuff that happens sometime, somewhere, your story that you're developing. Through writing is unfolding in a sequence of time and that, and that's really important in understanding you became you.

Bill: And it's hard as a writer, it's, it's hard, uh, an example. As an example, I am like 30 chapters into the book right now, and then I have a memory, like, you know, I'm, I'm writing about something when I'm 27, 28 years old, and I realize that what I'm writing about needs to be supported by something that happened that I haven't written about from 15 years earlier when I was 12 years old. So now I'm scrambling around going back through my writing and trying to find where did I write about this, where, where, where in the story that I've written was I 12 years old? And now that I've found that, where in that story does this story belong? And how do I need to write it in such a way that when I'm, when I'm writing about this important thing that happened when I was 27, that it makes sense to the reader.

Jerry: Yeah, and you're in a very, you don't give yourself an. A lot of credit, but you're at a very sophisticated place with this process. So much earlier in the process, you're just grabbing at memories and sort of throwing them down into a pile, and then you start pulling them to off. Then you start pulling them into chronological order, and then as you see them take shape in chronological order. Things like what you just said occur to you, it's like, oh, wow. Well, if I'm really gonna write this so that somebody can understand, I need to go back here and put this other thing in. So there's, it's a, it's an evolving, um, art. It's an art, it's like learning the violin, you know, like pick up a violin and know how to do an, a violin. So I'm never, I don't wanna make this that this is easy. So you're, you're,

Bill: Oh, it is not easy. And learning to play the violin wouldn't be easy for most of us. But I gotta tell you, I believe I must be at least five to 10 times better writer than I was when before we started this process, just because I've learned so much. And yes, it has been hard and it triggers my parts. A lot of times when you and I are coaching together and you're making suggestions, not so much anymore, but at first, wow. I, some of my parts got so triggered, uh, because I wanted you to love what I was writing and, that's not what you were there for. You were there to show me how to be a better writer

Jerry: Cool.

Bill: and, and, and you slap me on the back once in a while and say, Hey, that's well written, and that's always feels good too.

Jerry: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tribute to your many years of experience with your parts. 'cause it's not always

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Jerry: to take feedback like that.

Bill: Right. Okay.

Marty: on to point number two? Um, or, you know, the point being are points about the way that the memoir writing process leads us back to the true self. Number two, the art and craft of story writing enhances your verbal articulation of your emotions.

Jerry: Yeah, so one of the things that, that I've just grown enormously from trying to write a memoir. 'cause when I started, I grew up a nerd. I didn't have emotions. I mean, I was pretty clear about that and I didn't understand emotions. I, I came to the realization. In my mid twenties that this was an untenable position and I needed to understand emotions. it turns out that's not easy to do if you don't have any basis. So, uh, one of the things about emotions that's fascinating is that how we. things in our mind through our words, uh, through our perception of our body, uh, through our, uh, experiences in the past, memories and so on, but also how we articulate, our feelings is an important piece of, of just. Knowing how to relate to your own feelings, because we relate to each other. So if I, you know, say I'm mad, it's like, well, could you say a few more words about that please? 'cause I wanna understand more about why you're mad. And so, really being a sophisticated or, you know, socially aware person or psychologically aware person, the, the better you can articulate. emotional state, the more tools you'll, you'll just be able to bring more tools to bear. Even in IFS, when you go back and say, let's, you know, talk to that part, you're asking that part to talk in words. So the more you can, uh, learn, uh, the more part, the way you can teach your parts, uh, how to articulate their feelings. Is sitting in front of a blank screen and trying to describe what it felt like you were in grade and you felt crappy. It enhances your ability to relate to your parts and so, you know, self is being supportive to your parts higher self as being supportive to your parts. It's like trying to understand how can we all get along the. Ability for your parts to be able to express themselves. You tell the child, use your words being able to sit and write memoir, just, it's just self training. It's like lifelong learning. You just get better. You just get better.

Marty: Yeah. Well, I mean, I would think that doing it in dialogue would be helpful. You know, um, in conversation, you, you grow your understanding better than if you're just banging it out alone. Um, but I wanna underscore the importance of being, starting to be able to better articulate one's emotions and how that opens up. So many doors, um, to understanding yourself. I, I, I coach mostly executives and mostly in the financial services industry. And one of them came to me recently and said, you know, I, you, you talk about emotions a lot, and I'm starting to see like how little. Vocabulary I have around this. And so when I, I led him to a, a download online just of a list of emotions in there categorized and, oh, this is so helpful. And so I said, so what was the emotion that you were feeling? I. You know, before you brought this up to me and he went down the list and you know, he is like, look at, oh there it is. Anxiety. That's what I was, you know, and, and he was so overjoyed to be, start to get words. I mean, we are, let's say 33% emotional, I'm making that up. So we, it, it helps a lot in loving just to love yourself to be able to say, here's what I'm feeling. Right. So I think that's brilliant point. Thank you.

Jerry: Yeah. Yeah. And, and it goes a little further . Uh, so in, if you're writing a story and you want somebody to feel what you were feeling. Then you get into, uh, language about your body. So it's the somatic part of emotion. So it's like, my stomach hurt, or, you know, I could feel my shoulders tense or, you know, I could feel some sweat across my brow. And all those like little somatic tips that you're trying to help the reader understand your emotion, it's like, oh, now I understand it better myself. So it's a, it's a great, it's like a training.

Marty: That's great. Awesome.

Bill: That's a such a good point. And as I'll go back to my experiences, I'm writing this memoir, uh, I feel challenged to find language to describe the combination of thoughts, somatic and, and energy moving through my body that we call emotions to describe. That feels very challenging and. I am up to the challenge. I'm able to do it.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: I'll, I'll write it the best that I can. I'll go to sleep the next day. I'll look at it again and think, oh, I could say it's this way. That would be better. That would work better. Or I'll hear someone talking in such a way that describes that emotion and learn from them. Now I'm noticing I'm paying more attention to how people describe their emotions now, because I'm trying to learn how to write, write about it in my own book.

Jerry: Beautiful.

Bill: Yeah. We ready for number three.

Jerry: Sure.

Bill: The memoir GA genre is built upon the expectation and delivery of a redemptive arc in a memoir. The downbeat things are blame, revenge, self-pity, the destination of. A redemptive arc looks a lot like the eight C's. Celebrate curiosity and compassion are the eight. Cs are curiosity, compassion, calm, clarity, courage, confidence, creativity, and connectedness.

Jerry: Yeah. So again, getting back to the, uh, the whole fundamental thing about the higher self. And at the beginning when we were talking about what is a memoir? A memoir is a genre with a particular set of expectations. And when you open up a memoir that's published in, accepted as a genre, uh, you know, in that genre. And I've read hundreds of them. So I am not, there's no like one, I don't know that there's like one central body of rule making that says this is true, but it's just, it's true from my observation the broad range, you expect some kind of difficulty at the beginning and often it's a psychological difficulty. It's some kind of suffering or pain or, or, uh, Incompleteness. then through the journey of the story, the character is moving towards some sense of completion, I've, uh, struggled to sort of identify or to define that higher, I call it higher elevation. So you have things like Maslow's hierarchy, you get to the. Sort of self-actualization at the end that's more higher in the, chain of, goodness. But, uh, you know, the, the IFS hcs are a perfect way to explain what every memo memoir is sort of leading us in, in each book, say in a grieving memoir, for example. Uh. horrible loss at the beginning of a loved one that your, your whole life is wrapped up in and ripped apart. So in the beginning of a grieving memoir, you've got a person whose, whose life is shattered then. You know how it is with grief. You don't, you don't think it's appropriate to let it go because this grief is what you know, is the way, your way of connecting this, um, lost loved one. And yet we all know that at some point you have to come to a, a back, to a sort of stable place where you can, be okay with yourself and, and accept and, and work through, uh, feeling like. You've got wholeness back and, um, so what is that, that's a, a higher elevation or a higher sense of some kind of goodness. And I think from an IFS point of view, it's, it's being back in self. So, so the memoir genre, without anybody. Kind of inventing the memoir genre around IFS has got a lot of similarities in the way that it, um, expects each character to find their own path towards this higher this sense of self as it's, you know, as it tends to be defined in IFS.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Jerry: So it's a, it's a redemptive arc and that happens over and over. So forgiveness, for example, you know, just the most horrific thing could happen at the beginning, like an abused childhood. And you want this young person to grow up and move on with their lives. I. Holding onto blame and revenge and so on is just simply not a redemptive arc. You know, it's just you, you get a lot of revenge in like, uh, in like big ticket movies with, uh, with heroes and stuff. But in memoirs it's a very internal of your own, growing wisdom. So, again, as I just think of memoir as a kind of a, of a learning platform for our culture, for people who are interested in this method of seeing themselves, to be able to see that the charter or the agenda of the human experience is to move towards that higher self.

Marty: Are there, so I guess there aren't any memoirs with that are cliffhangers or that have, you know, scary endings or they, they all have happy endings.

Jerry: So, uh, certainly, um, you know, so looking at the exceptions, um, they are certainly, uh, so every memoir author has to do their best to finalize the, the memoir in the way that they. Feel is best for them. So it's kind of an artistic, you know, decision. But, um, I always say, you know, I read, you know, I, I don't wanna trivialize it, but, uh, with this, um, analogy, but, you know, when I was first interested in writing, someone told me that 25%, this was in the seventies, 25% of all books sold are romance novels. And so, um, because you, because people would get a hit of romance from reading one and then go back and read another one. And it was just a, it was a thing. But at the end of every romance novel, there's a romance. I mean, people work out their differences and come together. And that's why you go to the romance shelf. You go to the romance shelf because you're looking, uh, for two people who are struggling. How to get together and knowing that you're gonna get a payoff at the end of how they've gotten together.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Jerry: and similarly, I go to memoirs to look people who have. Just this whole range of issues, you know, immigration or mental, uh, a atypical mental situations or, loss or, you know, come combat trauma, and I wanna get to the end of the memoir with some kind of a resolution. So, uh, it doesn't have to be perfect. Um, uh. It can be very philosophical. Uh, it can be just, you know, and I made it through and now I'm alive. there's all different ranges of it. But yeah, you have to have the conclusion of a, of a memoir, I think, by definition of the genre, is that you've come to some kind of understanding of

Marty: Yeah,

Jerry: how that situation works.

Marty: I would think that, you know, if there are listeners. To the podcast who have a sense that they, there's something unresolved

Jerry: Mm.

Marty: life and maybe not even know exactly what it is. a couple of memoirs and see the, you know, the way these, um, processes go and, and maybe get a, a hint as to what yours is gonna look like.

Jerry: That's a, that's a really beautiful point, Marty. I, I, I said somewhere along the line, I think we've talked about it, that, that, that by looking at your past in terms of a story, you actually changed the relationship. To your own past. And this notion that my life is just gonna go on and on and on in misery, is, is simply one way to look at it. And if you go back through and look for those times in your life where you grew. know, I, I always say, uh, life goes up and down, but let's go up. So, so like, for example, a half full glass and a half empty glass. You know, the half full glass is like the acy, the half full glass, the pessimistic, the half empty glass. if you look at life going up and down, the optimist will see the part that went up. And the pessimists will see the part that went down. They're both right.

Marty: Right.

Jerry: you know, learning to see using the memoir genre as a way to exercise your insights

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Jerry: into the going up part, um, is a, is a great tool for, uh, developing the relationship with self.

Marty: right. Awesome. Let me, let me read your point number four, is that memoirs show us how story connects higher self to higher self.

Jerry: Oh yeah. So it's a little abstract. so story is a connection between people. So we all, you know, we think of, um. All kinds of ways of looking at the way we're attached to each other. You know, in a romantic partnership. We're attached in, in friendship and, uh, parent, child. But attachments are very real. And, and one of the ways that we connect with other realities is by reading stories. So it's like one of the reasons that we're, uh, human civilization relies on stories a way to. Uh, connect with strangers as a way to, to kind of understand models of the how other people's lives work. And, um, so, so one of the things for me is, is huge and, and really has changed my life, is by reading hundreds of memoirs, I've expanded my field of emotional connection just enormously. So when I meet somebody who's been in this particular situation. I have a whole, uh, catalog or a whole, uh, kind of collection of ways to relate to that personnel. And so reading their story, there was a real person who sat there for months and years to develop and share with me their story, and that I have now felt connected to them. And so it has given. A whole new, um, class of people. I don't know a whole, it's like a hobby of people connecting with each other because people who write memoirs are reading many, many memoirs to understand how the genre works. And of course, the, those they're reading were also written by people who are now connecting with them. And so this. It's this network, I think, think we're all, uh, craving it. You know, social media is like, you kind of see these little bits and pieces of people and, and you, you wish there was a way to connect, but they're, they don't, it doesn't work. But you sit down and read a 200 page memoir you've really spent some time getting to know this other person and what makes them tick and how they've achieved a higher version of themselves.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Awesome. That's beautiful. That makes me hungry to read

Jerry: Cool. Yeah, it's, it's been a, it's been a journey. I call it a hobby in a way because if you kind of like really open yourself up to this. of this dimension of life. it can fill so many places in your heart and your in your world, and your way of understanding people.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: I found, uh, recently I just finished a, a book called Imminent. Um, by Luis Alessandro, I believe is the guy's name, and he worked for the Department of Defense and he's writing about, uh, government, uh, efforts to hide all of the evidence of these UFOs for years and years and years and years. It's such an interesting story and I found, you know, I was drawn to it because it's such an amazing story about what, what possibly is true regarding. Life on other planets and how they're here visiting and checking, checking us out, and, but, but what I found equally, if not greater interest in was his life and the struggles that he went through to try to get the word out about what's actually happening That's been hidden. Uh, and he did an excellent job I thought of, of writing this book. I, I, I was sorry to see the end, the book end, and I, I, I would hope that that listeners or readers of my book would, would have the same experience that they, they would be sad to, that the book ended. so it's the story I felt, I felt connected to Luis,

Jerry: Right.

Bill: of this book. Yeah.

Jerry: Well there, there's a subtext to all of this and that if you go back through your life and understand how much of your life has been influenced or you know, directly or indirectly by books, it's unbelievable. From the time you were, your, your parents were reading, you like little children's books through

Bill: Yeah.

Jerry: and, you know, whatever. And then, and then of course movies or books on screen. So yeah, it's, it's, it's profound. It's really an important

Bill: Mm-hmm. By the way, that book was recommended to me by Dr. Uh Marie, uh, foyer, who was our podcast guest here a few weeks ago.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: She had some great recommendations. Alright, are we ready for number five? I memoirs Help us unblend from troubled earlier self. The literary effort of writing your story unblend you from the collection of parts you were earlier.

Jerry: I feel like I must have mentioned this before, but Unblending is an amazing part of IFS. You know, you've got this part who, who's like, this is me and this is who I am. One of the problems with with trauma is, um. When you're thrown back, when you, when you've had trauma in the past and then you quote, remember it, your brain thinks it's happening right now. 'cause you're like thrown back into. So it's a perfect example of how trauma therapy and if FS therapy are like, you know, a hundred percent aligned because in, uh, trauma therapy, uh, you know, you can't distinguish between then and now because you're like in that memory. And, and so, um. One of the problems disentangling yourself from that experience of being back then is because memories can exist in your mind, like snapshots. They, they take on a, a time and a space of their own. And one of the things that you do in storytelling is that you, you fully embrace that snapshot. But then you turn the page to the next day, because then after that horrible thing happened, you woke up the next morning and by developing the story of how you grew beyond that event and grew into the subsequent events. are now creating this sort of, uh, pathway that leads from the old, uh, stuck place to a, a, a higher version of yourself. So it's that whole elevation gain thing instead of a snapshot of a person that you just keep going back over and over and over to. That's stuck in time. You are developing, um, a a sense of memoir or a sense of story which helps you develop, a, a conscious awareness of the time as it unfolds and, and, and how you've grown from that. So it's an unli sort of like going in and using the literary. Tools, you know, I'm gonna describe it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna describe that person there. I'm going to make sure that my description is only of that person back then there. And you start to, your higher self, your, literary self, your executive self starts to really get that this, oh, okay. That was then And differentiating between, uh. Sort of frustrating of memories and turn them into really interesting parts of your own experience.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: It is an updating of sorts, the parts that were involved that might have got stuck back in that past story as the, as the book's being written, some of my parts are getting updated, like, oh, that's right. It was that way, and it's not that way anymore.

Jerry: Oh, there you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, I, yes, I'm reflecting on what you mean by updating and, right. That's almost exactly what I was thinking. Yep.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Jerry: Updating

Bill: of course, updating, uh, updating can only happen though if the part, so if we're, if we're gonna focus on the IFS model in comparison, which is what you're doing, parts are not open and, and receptive to updates. Until they've unblended and they don't unblend until they feel safe enough to do so.

Jerry: Well, um, sure. Yeah. This, this part that's getting, now you're giving this part a voice. If it is, if it is a part, I don't know if the analogy's perfect, but if I'm describing myself, you know, stoned and, and depressed in a, in a apartment in Madison, Wisconsin, my mind because I don't understand myself or life and I. course that memory doesn't feel safe, as I describe it and as I learn the language for it and as I bring my, what I call my authorial voice or my, my, you know, higher articulate, know, emotional, descriptive, literary self to sort of describe this person back there, a, he's given his full voice. He is now

Bill: Yes.

Jerry: he is

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Jerry: and um. Now he can move on.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: This is great. Okay.

Marty: Yeah, I think part of the, um, of what gets updated is where that event fits in the context of, of other, of other things. You know, like it was back then, it was when that happened, that's not happening now. That sort of thing. I've, I've seen trauma therapy. on tv, like in the West Wing. There are a couple of famous episodes in that series where the president or, and one of them is, uh, somebody awards from, anyway, the point is that the therapy, it was really just a, a retelling and not skipping anything, not leaving out anything that the mind wants to avoid, but just getting all of it retold and then. The, you know, um, uh, recovery is whole at that point. now the, again, that's a television depiction, but still, it, it, it jives with what you're saying, a about updating and seeing it in time where it actually belongs.

Bill: Can I give ex an exact example of that, uh, in a, in a coaching session? With a client who believes, who has a part that believes he's inadequate. We traveled back in time to a, to a time when he was inadequate. In reality, inadequate was the perfect word to describe that he was too young to, to adequately care for himself.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: He had the sense. Back. Back at that time when he didn't have attuned caretakers that weren't taking care of him, and so that left it to him to take care of himself and he didn't feel adequate to do so. The update for him once, once we had established enough safety and attunement in the coaching session, the update for this part was, that's true. You weren't adequate. And things have changed.

Jerry: Hmm.

Bill: have changed. Now you are.

Jerry: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect.

Bill: Okay, I wanna acknowledge time. We have a maximum of 10 minutes left and we still have three points to make.

Marty: We're up to number six.

Bill: We have four. So 6, 7, 8, 3 to go. Yeah. So maybe we can just, can we just read these and then let's, let's use our remaining time to, to wrap. How's that?

Marty: Number six is memoir writing reduces the power of shame by turning shame into story.

Jerry: Yeah. Um, it's almost, uh, just to kind of f finish that up, uh, quickly. It's almost exactly what you were saying, bill. The, the, the shame of being inadequate, uh, back then is now simply part of the story of a child growing up. So it's sort

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Jerry: in, in the sense that there is no shame, the shame that seems so real and so compelling and so captivating and so. Heavy really just part of a story of a child growing up,

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Jerry: so, so there's

Bill: Accurately. Yeah. And, and accurately assessing his situation at that time, which is amazing.

Jerry: right,

Bill: This client is, was what, four or five years old maybe when he decided I'm inadequate. Accurately, so, but that got stuck in him and, and so it was able to be released once it was updated with, and now, you know, all these years later, you are adequate.

Jerry: Right, right, right.

Marty: This is very much related to your point number eight memoirs make it easier to understand the origin story of the way parts learn their jobs.

Jerry: Right.

Bill: Perfect.

Jerry: so, uh, so profoundly, you know, interesting, you know, just in, in going with Bill, through his, his memoir work, um, you are developing a story of yourself that, so at each stage. Of your life is sort of obvious or easy start to start to visualize how these, this version of Bill at that particular time came up with parts that had these particular, uh, agendas. And, and so the more the fleshed in and the more vocabulary you understand about your own development and at different stages of your life. these are things that you wouldn't ordinarily go back and review unless you were doing this work.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Jerry: once you've done the work and then you do IFS and you say, oh, I see how that part got that idea, because that part of my life was just so, so obviously that was appropriate.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: We did skip number seven. Let me read that and then let's begin to wrap up, number seven is telling a story gives an opportunity for curious, non-judgmental, observing the parts. Uh.

Jerry: So I said step, so somewhere I was reading a, uh, 12 steps. Uh, description and, and there's, I might have even been in one, something you wrote, bill, that in step four there's this whole, uh, approach of, of non-judgmental curiosity, of just being curious who you were. just developing a deeper understanding of your own earlier self and very flawed self, obviously, or, you know, we wouldn't be having that conversation, but, The non-judgmental piece is such a fundamental part of memoir writing 'cause you're trying to share what you did, how you felt, what was going on. And it's nobody's, there's no judge in the room. You know, there's, this

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Jerry: you know,

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Jerry: that way. we love stories. Humans just wanna know good stories. And if you did bizarre things. That's interesting. So it's just, it just removes the whole, uh, removes a, a whole, um, load of judgment from around the self understanding. think it fits really well with the, what 12 Steps tries to achieve.

Bill: so, yeah. We do need to wrap up now. Jerry, if someone wants to get ahold of you and talk, talk to you about memoir writing, how would they do that? I.

Jerry: So, uh, my name is spelled J-E-R-R-Y-W-A-X-L-E-R, so either www.jerrywaxler.com. yeah, that's probably the easiest way, and then there's a contact form on my website.

Bill: Excellent. And is there anything that you're offering right now that you'd like, uh, potential clients to know about?

Jerry: I don't have a particular program right now, but I'm always looking to do coaching, uh, individual coaching and, um, manuscript review

Bill: individual coaching like you're doing with me, helping me to write my memoir.

Jerry: Yeah, I mean, there's so much, there's so many stages of writing a memoir and, uh, and, and just from all the way from I don't understand what to do with this blank page. I've got a whole life. How, where do I start

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Jerry: you know, I've got a hundred stories, but I have no idea how to turn them into a, a memoir.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Jerry: I have this manuscript that looks like a memoir, but I don't understand how the beginning, middle, and end works Um, it feels really horrible going back there. I, I need some insights to help me understand how to face some of the crap that I went through.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Jerry: So, yeah, I just, uh, it's my favorite topic and, um, love to talk with people about it and

Bill: Great.

Jerry: to coach.

Bill: I wonder, Jerry, if you'd be willing to come back and join us again as a guest? Once, uh, I send my book off my manuscript off to the, uh, publisher.

Jerry: Oh, of course. Yeah, that'd be fun.

Bill: Great, great. I sure appreciate you joining us as a guest.

Marty: Yes. Thank you. It was beautiful to get to know you.

Jerry: Oh yeah. Thanks so much. You too. Good.

Marty: Mm-hmm.