Bill: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the True You Podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Dr. Martin Kettelhut, and a leadership coach and an author. He's written a couple of great books. You can find notes about those in the show notes. My name is Bill Tierney. I'm a certified IFS practitioner. a Compassionate results coach. And today we have back with us for the first time on the True You Podcast. But from episode 12 of the Leadership Coaching Podcast, Laurie Chancey and Laurie, when she joined us for the Leadership Coaching Podcast, to us, talk with us about choice and true. Self. So here we are back again in the True You podcast. We get an opportunity to pick up where we left off and it's been at least a year. I don't, I don't have a date on that. Do you recall how long It's been about a year.

Laurie: Year, year and a half, something like that. Yeah.

Bill: Yeah. It's been at least a year since we've talked. Lemme go ahead and introduce you for those that, that didn't get a chance to, uh, be introduced to you from a year, year and a half ago when we spoke first. Uh, Laurie is a level two internal, internal family systems IFS practitioner. Level two. What that means is she's been trained to two levels of IFS in the, uh, by the IFS Institute, and I'm sure Laurie's got all kinds of training besides that, but, but that's, that's what's significant. When it comes to IFS, uh, she owns Laurie Chancey coaching. She is the administrative director and teacher of the Con Crescent Institute, which I really hope that we'll talk about by the end of this conversation today. Previously, she was a sociology professor for a community college. She, I. Has an MA in sociology. She's from Louisiana. hear a little bit of that in her draw. Maybe a little bit. Slept in there. And she lives in metro Atlanta, Georgia. No, you don't hear it,

Marty: Not much. Not much.

Bill: Well, let's dig in. Welcome back, Laurie. I.

Laurie: Thank you so much. It's good to be back with the two of you. I so enjoyed our first conversation I, my hair has grown and I'm looking forward to, to what we're talking about, whatever it is.

Bill: It's not gotten any grayer has it? hair?

Laurie: I don't know. Probably.

Bill: Yeah. It,

Laurie: Yeah.

Bill: a slightly different look. I like it longer hair.

Laurie: Thank you.

Bill: And you and I haven't connected nearly as much in this past year, year and a half as we were connecting prior,

Laurie: Yes.

Bill: uh, to our, uh, connection in the leadership coaching podcast. So let's dig in.

Laurie: Yeah.

Bill: would like to talk and we would love to hear about your spiritual, your journey into spiritual IFS work.

Marty: Especially as it relates to this journey, we're all on to coming home to our true self.

Laurie: Yeah.

Bill: this journey, would you, where does this journey begin for you, Laurie?

Laurie: Oh, parts, like, well, I was born in, uh, yeah. Um, so I've been on my IFS, uh, healing journey and recovery journey for about five years now. And. So that was sort of the, the formal opening of the healing journey, even though I realized I have been on one for a long time. Um, one of my first hangups with IFS that they couldn't stop using the word body.

Marty: Hmm.

Laurie: classic IFS question, like, where do you find that part in your man? Your bad? the parts have to let you know how they feel about that by altering my affect there. Um, because what would happen when my first IFS therapist would ask me like, where do you feel that and around your body, um, there would be the sense of part looking for looking down at the body. Not getting anything then frustrated, then I'm doing it wrong. Shame or she's doing this wrong, angry,

Marty: Hmm.

Laurie: shutting it down. And sometimes even not speaking to the shutdown and trying to fake it like the whole parts storm, just around the word body. So we agreed that she was not gonna use the B word. And for a couple of years, her and anyone else I practiced with also got an IFS practitioner in addition to the therapist later. And they all knew, do not use that word. Um, eventually, and my parts appreciated me honoring that, right? Because I could do great work in through visuals, through, I would see my parts, hear my parts, and I would see them like around, out here. I. And

Bill: Outside of you.

Laurie: outside of me. Yeah. So I could locate them like out, out here or something, but not in there.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: And parts would say, we don't have a body.

Marty: Hmm.

Laurie: We don't have a body. What are you talking about? And then the right answer was, of course, yes. Yeah, you don't have a body. That's great. Now let's, let's move through. Something eventually got curiosity toward the parts that were locking down the body and started working with them because like self-energy and no, from parts, but also moves towards healing. And it is very clear that, okay, if the word body is causing such an activation in me. Then

Marty: Hmm.

Laurie: let's go toward what it, what does have an opening. But eventually there was an opening and I started actively holding that intention in IFS sessions and, and psychedelic sessions like, heal my body, please Heal my body. Well, that led to a process of me redoing, uh, my, my own birth. Um, I was born by through C-section and there were parts that were holding trauma around that from something that like, from their story was like, don't exactly know what was supposed to happen, but we know that wasn't it. So they needed a redo of that, and then the very next thing was, boom, past life. Um, a past life burden. I'm like, okay. So I ke I start working with the past lives. I start working with the spiritual stuff because it's just coming up just like a part in the, in the body or just like a part in here comes up, A past life part can come up too.

Marty: So there was truth. To the parts that said, this isn't about the body, because they were referring to a past life, a disembodied.

Laurie: In some sense, yes. Um, what feels most true for me is that trauma in my body that was being held in my energetic system from. The past lives was so intense that my system held off body awareness until I had the capacity deal with the past life stuff.

Marty: I see. Okay.

Laurie: So

Marty: it wasn't because it was past life, it was because it was too intense. Exactly. And that's when parts come up and stop us and say, no. Mm-hmm.

Laurie: Like, no, this is You cannot pass yet. You still have a hero's journey to do before I let you through this gate.

Marty: Okay, I'll let you continue on your journey.

Laurie: Thank you though. I, I had talked for quite some time and it's like, oh yes, someone come in and, and me in, but I am getting to

Bill: you resume. Before you resume. There was something I wanna

Laurie: yes.

Bill: the listener who's not as familiar with the Internal Family Systems model, parts. We all have parts. It's normal to have parts. It doesn't mean we're crazy or insane or have any, any kind of pathology or mental illness that we have parts, uh, the I Fs model helps us to discern. What influence each of our parts are having on us, and then actually build relationships with them that teaches us how to have conversations, build relationships with our parts and, and form alliances and friendships with them and, and, uh, work together with them. So, and, and the way we're able to do that is from, I. What IFS refers to as self capital S and the energy that shows up when in the presence of self is referred to as self energy, and that's the energy that helps heal the system and apparently can help heal past lives too. Huh?

Laurie: It can, uh, with, with some assistance, because, um, I know leadership is a big thing for y'all, right? And self-leadership is good for inside my own system. And if I'm dealing with something that's outside my body, I need a different form of self-energy, which can come from a higher being. Um, whatever any spiritual beliefs anyone has, insert that in here. Ask, ask God to help source universe, Buddha, Jesus. A, a kindly healed ancestor, somebody who's outside because I don't have authority over outside my body. It's a different department.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: So self-energy can like recognize there's a past life who needs help, but needs to call in someone else help with it.

Bill: You mentioned that. It sounds like your journey began in the IFS. The IFS journey began with some difficulties around reference to the

Laurie: Yes,

Bill: some things had happened where your parts had shut down. Your connection with body. Am I

Laurie: yes,

Bill: accurately?

Laurie: yes.

Bill: And as you began to do that particular work and bring yourself en energy to that, with the help and support of, of the practitioners that you were working with, then something happened and introduced you to past lives. And this is also having to do with rebirth. So I

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Bill: not rebirth, but redoing your birth.

Laurie: Yeah.

Bill: so yeah. Could we pick up there maybe.

Laurie: Yeah, exactly. So it's like what is blocking my access to my body? Well, I needed to go through the rebirth process and I need to be with lives around that. how, how we notice a part is to notice a feeling, thought, belief, sensation, so on. After I did the rebirth thing and started working with some past lives, I started noticing that the responses my system was having didn't make sense for the particular situation. not in a, it happened, not like, well, let me just explain. I went, A lot of this has happened at the gym, a big site for working out the body. Of course, once. At the gym, I started noticing that I felt and more upset with every workout machine that I used, like started getting panicky and, and anxious upset, and I'm like, to cry at the gym? Like, what? You know, what is this?

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: And as I kind of asked into like, what's, what's going on right now? I started getting visuals of my fingers getting snapped off by the gym equipment and I was like, okay, well this isn't whatever you're holding. This isn't happening right now. My fingers are not in danger of getting snapped off in this machine. Is it okay for me to stay here or do I need to go home? And I kind of breathed with it for a little bit and I heard like, go home. So go home and I like, settle into meditation. I'm like, what is this? Well, it's a past life part of me died after an accident in a, in a factory. He was 10 years old. Um, it was about in industrial. Yeah, industrial, I don't know, either America or Europe or something like that. you know, child labor. And so he got his fingers stuck in a machine and he lost his fingers, lost his ability to work, and ended up kind of dying early after abusing alcohol. And I. That's why I was getting upset at the gym. So as soon as I find him, I help him, he settles. Um, and then I can use an exercise machine without worrying. My fingers are gonna snap off. So,

Bill: How.

Laurie: huh. How?

Bill: How'd you help me?

Laurie: Well, he is outside of my body, even though he's like communicating with it, he's hooked in. So I asked one of my guides to come in and help him. And so that's calling in the self-energy that's appropriate for him. That's the, that's not really my department. I can intention and ask a guide to go to him, but that's how we help. And then he got and settled down.

Bill: Yeah. Yeah. So I, I really am interested in knowing more about this. Do you mind if I ask you a couple more questions related to

Laurie: Yeah, come on.

Bill: O Okay. I guess the, the, uh, the, the question that's tough in my mind is, is this your past life? Is this a, an energy or a personality or person from your past life or a past lives that somehow has merged with you?

Laurie: Uh, he was me. Um, that's something I ask the guides and I also can ask him directly. I get a sense of that. I mean, he's settled since then. but yeah, that was my past life. I have had experiences where things that were not me also attached and deal with them in the same way.

Bill: Yeah, yeah,

Laurie: Yeah,

Bill: In the same way, meaning with compassion, curiosity, and love.

Laurie: yeah. All of that for me. And calling in a guide.

Bill: Mm-hmm. How did you know, how did you learn? You had guides.

Laurie: Well, I very, like a few months into IFS work, I've found this meditation to like connect with your guides. And I was like, cool, I could use some guidance. And I did the meditation and um, my grandfather came in and um, gave me a gift. And he has, uh, stayed with me since then. He, he died the year before I got on my IFS journey and, you know, papa hangs out and helps with stuff. And then I, you know, was in, 'cause I've gotten more into, uh, the consciousness medicine world and some shamonic practices is all about like, nourishing connection with guides. And so I've been able to deepen my relationship with them. I taking classes in Applied Shamanism, and the whole point is like journeying to guides and building relationships with guides. And so they, they, I essentially, my experience was I asked and they showed up.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Wow. And you, you asked because you ran across some book that introduced you to the possibility of it and you thought you could give some guidance.

Laurie: Yeah, exactly.

Bill: you remember the name?

Laurie: it was, uh, uh, Tom Holmes and, and Tom and Laurie Holmes actually. Uh, the part, the parts work book. It's the one with all of those cool illustrations that the interactive cards look like that too. Yeah. the last chapter, um, that meditation opened it up for me

Bill: In parts work or in that book, in that.

Laurie: in the book. Yeah.

Bill: Yeah. That you read. Okay. By Tom

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Okay. We'll make sure Ari gets that in show notes. So please continue. Marty, do you have some questions or anything that you have for Laurie?

Marty: Um, not yet. No. Go ahead.

Bill: Okay.

Laurie: Yeah. Um.

Bill: interrupting you. Let's see if, let's just, let's just see if you can get into flow before I interrupt you again.

Laurie: Yeah, let me, lemme there. Let me see what, is, what seems essential about this? So I'm not just like storytelling all over the place. on the way to access to my body, to being able to feel energy shifts in my body to have somatic awareness. Um. It. Oh, I went blank. Why did I go blank? Hello? Blanking part.

Bill: I have a part that wants to jump in and help, but I, I, I can, I'm good with just leaving you

Marty: And I have a party who wants to take responsibility because my attention went away for a second. That might have been the.

Laurie: Aw, I'm noticing all your responses to my blankness. Thank you. Um, yeah, just like the blankness of the body, the blankness of the mind, so. It was my past deaths. That was the thing that they blanked out my, the energy of my past, past deaths were very much blocking my body access, and that's why my protectors needed to shut down body access because the stuff I witnessed about how I've died before was hardcore, super traumatic,

Bill: Hmm.

Laurie: right? Uh, uh, my soul is old as hell. Apparently. I've died in a lot of different ways and I had to witness some of those. And after I did that, I now have somatic awareness. I,

Marty: Wow.

Laurie: yeah, I, I am genuinely grateful to my protectors who shut down body awareness.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: Because, um, wi witnessing a witnessing apart from this life is witnessing a trauma that I lived through,

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: witnessing past deaths. Those are traumas that I did not live through. They're much worse. So it's, it's like my, one of my messages here is about respecting the wisdom of a protector who says, do not pass. Do not go here.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: the door will open when there's enough capacity and trust.

Marty: So that was the. What the work that you did was bringing compassion and trust.

Laurie: Yeah, compassion and trust to my system and not push it past anything it didn't wanna do.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: deal with whatever's on top

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: then. Keep going and notice what support is needed.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: Is it self-energy? Is it another person? Is it a guide?

Marty: And so those parts of you that had witnessed horrible deaths in the past, um, did they, where, how, how did they come to let you have somatic experience back? What, what, what shifted?

Laurie: What what happens with that is that, um, the, the idea goes, and this is some of the stuff that I'm learning through Jennifer Baldwin's mentorship at Crescent, is that there is an energetic field that the, that goes along with the soul and there are traumas that can get embedded in the energetic field and duplicate themselves in the next live.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: slide,

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: Bob Falconer, um, talks about studies that show that like to, to prove reincarnation, to show that sometimes people have birthmarks that correspond with their death wounds and past lives.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Laurie: So there's an energetic Im imprint that carries through multiple lives it will just keep carrying through until. We get to a life where somebody can actually intention healing for it. Like find it, call a guide to it and

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: do it, and then it can, it can loosen up. So my lack of of body awareness was somewhat like, you're gonna have to witness all this gory stuff to undo the energetic pattern under this, and that is what's clogging your body.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Laurie: that kind of thing.

Marty: So how does it feel to be back in your body,

Laurie: I dunno about back. I was never in my body in this life until about six months ago.

Marty: right?

Laurie: great. It's like there's feelings in here.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: It's like there's energy shifts,

Marty: Uh huh.

Laurie: and always made sense to the thinky parts. Like there's a bunch of stuff going on down there. We just can't feel any of it. But it's lovely to feel energy inside. one of the pieces of this journey was I'd just taken a, somatic awareness was open, I took this walk and was like sweaty and tired and I just felt worse the more I walked and I checked in with my system and I saw this like cloud in front of me and ask, what is that? I hear like, that's your endorphins. We're not letting them into your system because then you will feel good, then you will think exercise is not dangerous. And if you think that, then horrible things are going to happen.

Marty: Uh. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Laurie: lots of protection against that.

Marty: Hmm.

Laurie: But awareness in my body has opened up so many more. So, uh, just a new level of work. Um.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Laurie: And now I can detect parts or past lives or ghosts or whatever the,

Marty: Some sensations in the body.

Laurie: yeah.

Marty: Uh.

Laurie: I had a, a whole week recently of extreme digestive distress. No matter what I ate. I cramps like it was awful. After about a week of this, I remember saying in the morning like, it doesn't matter what I eat, nothing helps. And then I went into an IFS therapy session later that morning and I sent curiosity the gut and there was a very, very angry dead guy. In there whose stomach hurt really bad. It wasn't me, but he was in because he, he was angry at my light and he was poking my digestive system, so I would feel as bad as he did and

Bill: How'd he get in there?

Laurie: yeah. Well, he is connected to a group of people that I'm connected to and I just spent time with that group of people. And that's how he got in of my connection to that group. He's following it. My sense is that my inner light is somehow a, a, he perceived enough of a, as a threat and my connection with that group gave him a way in. There's always, they, they always have to have a way to get in.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: So there was something that was un yet unhealed or unprotected in me that invited that in.

Bill: Yeah. Yeah.

Laurie: Yeah.

Bill: And so did you invite him to leave?

Laurie: Yeah. I called in a guide, sent him on his way, and um, so he got some compassionate healing and my stomach instantly felt better.

Bill: Amazing.

Laurie: It was just like, oh, that's what it was. And I, I reflect like, what if my manager parts my problem solving parts? just focused on the gut issue as something physiological, and it's like, okay, now we gotta restrict our diet and we gotta do this. Meanwhile, the angry ghost in my gut would be like, ha. And thinking about the, the chronic inflammation that that would've caused, like how soon would that have turned into IBS stomach cancer?

Bill: Right.

Laurie: That's what happens when something is inside trying to get attention. And it doesn't get that attention. It goes deeper and deeper and deeper until it can cause a symptom that gets it attention.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Laurie, do you work with clients that in this way that you're describing, that you work with yourself, do you help them to get in touch with guides?

Laurie: Uh, yes. If they're inquiring about that. If they're ready for that. Absolutely. Um, and it's a. It really. Um, of course the blockages to that are parts who to be skeptical about it or who are saying it's dangerous to ask for help. Um, all of those sorts of things and parts who are hoping, hoping, hoping for guides like that needs to be settled before inviting them in. Yeah. yeah, I absolutely help clients with all of the, the things that I'm describing here as far as my personal work. 'cause that's one of the, the things that I've been shown over and over again, that I can't walk somebody else down a path that I haven't already walked on. And so this, you know, I get healed and that prepares me to help heal other people.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bill: Well. Uh, what inspired my question is that I meet a lot of people who are experiencing chronic health issues, and, um, as they're listening to you describe what you experienced with a ghost in your gut. I'm guessing that they're wondering, well, do I have a ghost in my gut or do I have a, a ghost in my immune

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Uh. Or my back or in my head where all these headaches are happening or, and so not the only person on the planet that's doing this though, right? Is there a, I mean, if someone wanted to find someone to help in this particular way, there's you and who and how, where else would they look? I.

Laurie: Well, I mean, the IFS model essentially does, um, address how to deal with health issues like in the level one training. One of the, the, kind of the first article that they show us is the first one that made IFS evidence-based, which is how good it is at treating rheumatoid arthritis.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: And so the training teaches us how to be with physical somatic symptoms, how to send curiosity there and find what's next. So any IFS person perhaps could be able to deal with this, that would be a question to interview your potential practitioner. Um, the, if folks are looking for help around the spiritual side of things, around guides, like, what if I have a ghost in my gut? And there's not a lot of, there's not as many practitioners and therapists in the IFS world who have gone that way, who are comfortable with that. So a key word to look for is like, spirituality, spiritual, IFS.

Bill: And I have run across that in my practice as well. And I've got a couple of cases where, well, when you think about. Addiction. Addiction is a great example of this, where someone is in an addictive process and has tried 12 Step and it hasn't worked, and we get curious about their parts and now their system, their internal system shifts and the, the whatever, the addictive act or process, behavior or substances no longer seems to be And, and it's, it's shocking really

Laurie: Yeah.

Bill: in, in a world where, uh, we go to war against addiction, for example, uh, to, to approach it with compassion and consider that we might have parts. Another example is, woman who had, uh, a growth like in, in the back of her throat. And, uh, was getting ready to go into surgery had one more, uh, pre-op with her doctor. after we had done some work and gotten to know the part that, had put that lump there, uh, they couldn't find it anymore. That was just like after one session. It was incredible

Marty: Wow.

Bill: I, continued to check with her. It's been a year since then, and it's, it's not back.

Marty: Hmm.

Laurie: Wow, great work.

Bill: here's the, I got a part that's saying, okay. Oh, be careful. We're not telling people not to go to doctors. We're not telling people that,

Laurie: Oh yeah.

Bill: that that. But go to your doctor and get curious about the parts of you that might have something to say.

Marty: Well, and I think a general lesson that I'm coming away from this conversation. Is that the, our true self, the true you to use the actual words of the podcast includes your body, it includes your past before this life and those interactions, those traumas that are still, I don't wanna say encrusted in your soul. Um. It includes guides that you can call in and employ. Um, so there, there are there other, any other major categories? If you know, if I wanna know the true me, I have to take all these into account. I can't just say, oh, I'm only a spiritual being, or I'm only a body. Like there are these levels to the true you.

Laurie: Mm. Yeah, the true you has a physical presence

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: a spiritual, energetic presence.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: A guide is not you.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: guide has their own true, you true them,

Marty: Got it. Okay.

Laurie: but the true, you can be connected to guides and just as the true you is connected to bill's. True you,

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Laurie: yeah.

Marty: He's one of my guides.

Laurie: Ah,

Marty: Yeah. So glad it So the true you has access to guides, they have their own true selves,

Laurie: yes.

Marty: okay.

Laurie: And in a way, the past lives also have their own true youness, but

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: a through line of a soul

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: of an energetic pattern that we share.

Marty: I see. Okay, so then there's this shared soul as well.

Laurie: Yeah. And to complicate things further, the ancestry lines,

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: right?

Bill: was just gonna ask you about

Laurie: Yeah.

Bill: about that.

Laurie: So I am an incarnation at the intersection of my soul line and my, my maternal ancestry and my paternal ancestry. So those provided my DNA, and there's spiritual connections there, but that's a spiritual and biological connection. then there's a spiritual connection from the on the soul line. I'm at the intersection of all those in this current incarnation in this human body.

Bill: And tell me how you know about that. How have you learned about that?

Laurie: Good question. Uh, because I have seen it and experienced it, I did not believe, and well, I, I have this thing of like, I always believe what other people tell me if it feels like their, they're speaking their truth and I can be like, okay, well that's true for you.

Bill: Yep.

Laurie: For me, I don't internally believe anything until I experience it. And when I knew past lives were real was when my first one showed up. So it's kind of like investigating my system. You know, if a, if a part tells me who they are, I believe them. If past life tells me who they are, I believe them. So it's, it's that in IFS we often say just ask and you can receive an answer and it's. It's the truth. Um, my skeptical part has had quite a journey with us. he has been invited to sit and watch because I find that he and many other skeptic parts really respect evidence, and so he's absolutely been welcome. He has been protecting me from getting fooled again. He was like, excellent, we don't wanna do that. He is protected me from like, oh my God, what if all this supernatural stuff is real? No, it's not real. Too scary. Too scary, too scary. so he's needed to hang out and watch while a bunch of stuff has happened until he finally realized and got an unburdening and finally realized, Hey, this is actually real and we're safe.

Bill: Your skeptical part had a combination of witnessing firsthand evidence that some of this far out stuff is

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Bill: and it helped that it, that the skeptical part who you refer to in, as in, in masculine

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Bill: he, uh, had an unburdening. Can you, are you willing to share about that?

Laurie: Um. he, it took him, it took him a long time to be okay with me, like really talking to him. He had to watch a lot of stuff first, but, um, he, at that time, well, he went by the name Doug, the Dower. So my skeptical part, his name was Doug. He wore a wizards robe he would throw a ball of confusion and doubt everything.

Marty: Hmm.

Laurie: And one time I was talking to him and he sort of let me peek in the, the fault on the side of his robe, and he was hiding little 10-year-old boy, part of me there.

Marty: Hmm.

Laurie: And he's like, all right, no more. And then, well, thank you for that peak, Doug. And then eventually he, let me be with the little boy. And the little boy was me at 10. terrified of the nightmares. I would have these horrible nightmares, night terrors. just you know, wake up several times a night. And so that's when Doug came online to say, you know, none of this supernatural, scary stuff is real. And he had to do that to protect the little boy from being so scared.

Marty: Hmm.

Bill: This isn't real. This isn't real, this isn't real. And that that was a protection. Okay.

Laurie: Yeah,

Bill: And so then you helped the little boy. How?

Laurie: well, I, I held him and, um, I got Doug's permission to hold him and I did this during a ketamine session, and so it's, it went, um, perhaps a little deeper than, and maybe a little easier than our in regular consciousness. Um, but I held him. I held the boy and I got the sense that there was like a ghost generating machine or a machine, like throwing them at me. Kind of like, you know when you're in the, the batting cage and that machine like throws the balls at you. It was like that except there were ghosts and so it was like, oh, here's this like scary old woman's face and I don't recognize her. let me do my protocol for releasing ubs. Okay. Poof. She's gone and the little boy gets a little more confident, and then something else weird comes in. All right. UB release protocol po. Okay. Ooh, A little more

Bill: UB, by the way, stands for Unattached Burden.

Laurie: unattached.

Bill: ghost.

Laurie: Yeah.

Bill: It's it's foreign energies that don't belong in your system. Yes.

Laurie: Yeah. It's a suffering spirit who trying to find a find relief, but gets a tap. Um,

Bill: these night terrors were actually, were they visits from your past? Were, were they memories of your past

Laurie: well, I kind of think maybe that they were or me sensing something in, in the spirit realm. And because I've noticed that, um, uh, that if there are things like that around then they will kind of poke my fear to get my attention. And so learning to turn toward, I could do that after I unburned that little boy learning to turn toward any fear, just alerted me that there's something around that not beneficial.

Bill: So the unburdening for this little boy was that he got what he needed back then, and it sounds like

Laurie: Right.

Bill: was someone to be with

Laurie: I

Bill: and not to be alone with those night terrors.

Laurie: Exactly. And to protect him, to hold him and to push the thing away.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Laurie: he ended up saying, it's real and I'm safe.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: It's so, he needed to know that, well, that supernatural stuff is real and Laurie can protect me and Laurie's guides protect Laurie. It's real safe. Yeah.

Bill: I really wanna stay here for a minute. If we

Laurie: Yeah.

Bill: uh, for those of that are familiar with the IFS model, especially practitioners. Um, when it comes to unburdening, uh, often it seems like there's just a. What, what occurs to me as a superficial, uh, ritual that is performed and we hope that that will, suffice for, to unburden the part. It won't, uh, I just wanna say that it will not, uh, unless the part. is really witnessed for what it needed, what it experienced, what it made it mean, the pain it endured and experienced and continues to hold until it's completely witnessed, validated, understood, appreciated, understood, efficient way, the part choice. Onto this burden because the system couldn't handle it at the time that it took on the burden in the first place, and it's been left holding the bag ever since.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: So when we come back to help these parts unburden, we have to actually help them. We have to actually address what was real for them, even if it's so bizarre that it doesn't make sense to us, we continue to persist until it does.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bill: Because only then will the part feel understood. How could we possibly feel understood if the person that's listening, like if I'm the part and I'm, and I've got this crazy secret that, that nobody will let me tell and I'm alone with it and have been for the last 60 years, let's say, and now somebody finally shows up claiming to be self or to be, to be self led or self energized and here to help from the future. Oh yeah. You think that's crazy? Listen to this. I, I've got a story to tell too. So as, as that exile burden. wanna be heard, understood, and appreciated for the, for the dilemma that I've been staked with for all of these years before I have any interest at all in getting an update or watching your magical powers. Boy, a part of me is so delighted that I said this out loud and had it recorded. Because it's a frustration for me. It's a frustration to, to, as a client, to go into sessions and be told that I've been unburdened and, and not feel any different. Like, oh really? That was, yeah, I know what, know. What,

Marty: Sorry. Be your pardon.

Bill: just wanna, let me wrap it up by saying, I know what it feels like to be unburdened. I no longer am holding the painful memories. The painful meaning making, uh, and the, and, and the. related to all of that, the aloneness, for example, the rage, the, uh, fear, the shame. Mostly, mostly what was, what was the shame, what is wrong with me that I, that I'm just so unacceptable to the world, that I have to be hidden away, to be so managed that that seems to be from my, my exiles, essentially the same common chorus that's, that's sung. Once I get to them, until I really, really witness and get them, they remain burdened. You were gonna ask something, Marty? I think I, I think I'm complete with, with expression of that

Marty: Yeah. So what

Bill: Okay.

Marty: do you guys say to somebody who says, well, gosh, I've done a lot of IFS, but I've never seen wizards and ghosts and stuff. I don't, am I missing some parts or is, you know, should I read different novels? Like where do I get those images?

Bill: I am gonna.

Laurie: Every system is unique. Um, my system, because of the lack of body access, express itself super visually.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Laurie: That's how the parts could be seen, well literally seen, right? So if we don't have access to body awareness, we're gonna put a lot of energy into this visual thing

Marty: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Laurie: and. Not everybody needs to be with their past lives. Not everybody

Bill: may

Laurie: has.

Bill: right,

Laurie: What was that?

Bill: this may not be the lifetime for that. There must there this lifetime might be for something

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Laurie: That's true. And maybe you ha, maybe you are a young soul. Haven't been through a lot yet. Or maybe your past lives were so good that you're not carrying any burdens from them, or if they you do, they're negligible. So this is a territory that absolutely not everyone needs to go. I just found that it was the next step for me.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: I wasn't going and seeking like, I need to go connect to the blah, blah, blah, you know? No, I was just like, I'm anxious and depressed and my body is a blank sack of concrete. Like, uh, help me, you know? But starting from there and just dealing with whatever came up, it

Marty: Yeah.

Laurie: for me has led there. So,

Marty: Yeah. So different people will be led in different, different directions or different um. They'll, they'll maybe different ways of connecting with it, like you said, visual versus something else. Um, so, so there's nothing, everybody's got their own path, their own parts.

Laurie: Indeed,

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: and it's interesting that a lot of the. There's a lot of, um, kind of lean towards visual and some of the standard IFS questions, like, how do you see the part, does it have a color? Or something like that. but Dick Schwartz, the founder of IFS, doesn't see his parts. He doesn't have visual awareness of his parts.

Marty: Interesting.

Laurie: Um, and so it's almost like we're the o opposite. You know, Dick Schwartz has never been visual and I was never, I. Uh, somatic. I did open that up, but

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: everyone's path.

Marty: Got it.

Laurie: Yeah. So one,

Bill: You

Laurie: what, what I would say about that is I opened up somatic awareness by making it okay to not have somatic awareness.

Marty: Interesting. Very, very key. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Laurie: So whatever the system, however the system is communicating, make that okay and be with that.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And however it doesn't want to. Or, or, or just dozens. Or just dozens. Yeah. That's okay too.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: Got it.

Bill: Yeah, there's no trying, there's no efforting in IFS.

Marty: Hmm. Beautiful. Beautiful.

Laurie: Except when we need to hang out with trying parts. Yeah.

Bill: Mm-hmm. Uh, I wanna ask you, so we've got probably maximum 10 minutes left here,

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Bill: and I wanna ask you about, um, the training that you're doing with ants. We don't really have enough time about the other topic to talk more about the other topic. is, you mentioned ketamine. I'm really interested in talking a lot more about that MDMA, ayahuasca, ketamine, and so many other things that people are using to access their internal worlds. Can maybe take a few minutes with that. You mentioned that, that you used Ketamine,

Laurie: Yeah.

Bill: a particular journey that you were honored exploration. Yeah, so I guess here's my interest. It seems, is it legal now? It used to be like hush, hush. Nobody ever talked about it, and, and now all of a sudden everybody's talking about it. That's not everybody, but a lot of people in in the IFS community are talking about it. Tell, tell me what you can about this, please.

Laurie: It's, it's legal with a prescription and a lot of folks are getting, uh, mail order prescriptions from different companies. Um, I get mine from a, local psychiatrist who I've also partnered with to offer ketamine to my, my clients. Um, I just recently got ketamine IFS certified through Crescent and um, it's like, come to Crescent Institute and we will teach you all about IFS and consciousness medicines.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: So I am wondering what your, your curiosity is. You're like, just talk about it. Like what do you wanna know?

Bill: well, actually, there is a concern, there's a part that has concerns about

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Bill: As a practitioner, I am concerned. I now, I haven't done it at all myself. Uh, but given the reports that I've gotten from clients that, that have u used something to enhance their experience, my concern is that I wonder if protectors, is a, gonna be a crude way to say that, say this, but I'm wondering if protectors aren't drugged. that they don't protect and, and you get access to parts that you otherwise wouldn't get access to, and that that's, that's a dishonoring and a disrespect to the internal system that is gonna have some backlash. That's a.

Laurie: Yeah, great concern. so before I would give you Ketamine, we would spend a few weeks or months, um, being what that part's concern. And as I've been mentored by Jennifer. Through compressions. It's like you do the IFS work beforehand, that the journey takes you to where you want to go and doesn't bypass anyone.

Bill: Okay. So it's like you go into that journey with the assistance of the chemical

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Bill: drug, or how do you refer to it? Medicine. The medicine.

Laurie: Medicine.

Bill: Uh, the medicine with permission of all of the, all of the protectors have an opportunity to, to voice their concerns and worries and fears

Laurie: Yes,

Bill: you would do that. Very good. I love that answer.

Laurie: and my, my first journey was. Like putting protectors in front who are like, what is this? What is it gonna do? Is it gonna make us crazy? What, like, are we gonna become addicted to this? Like, all of the, the protector concerns, it's like, okay, well, uh, let's take the medicine with you and so you can have my self energy while you notice the effects of the medicine.

Bill: Very nice. so glad I asked that question.

Laurie: Hmm.

Bill: what I'm noticing, and I'm, and you picked up on it when you, when you were asking me why did I ask the question was that I have parts that were concerned. I didn't realize that at first when I first started asking. There seems to be an interest, but it's not like the curiosity, self energized interest that I want to use an exploration. And I didn't know that until you asked. And then I recognized, oh, there's, there's a part that had a concern here and here's what it is,

Laurie: Yep.

Bill: and I've never asked it before. I certainly haven't asked it being recorded in the podcast, and now I, I have, and I'm so glad I did because I love, I love what I just learned.

Laurie: Great. Yeah. A consent matters and the, the idea is not to bypass anyone. so it's also good to be curious if parts are really like gung-ho about ketamine. Like,

Bill: Yeah.

Laurie: I got to do this. This is gonna help me get to all my exiles. I need to unburn the whole system. Like that's, um, if that part is leading, then that's where we get into bypass territory. That's where

Marty: Hmm.

Laurie: repair to do afterward. 'cause parts absolutely feel, can feel slighted. Yeah.

Bill: Yeah. Wonderful. So what, Marty, what's on your mind? Any questions that you have that you'd like to have answered before we lose Laurie? I'm gonna lose here, but I mean, we're, we're gonna run outta sign.

Marty: No, I'm, I'm, this has all been very fascinating. I don't have, I, I've got lots to think about.

Bill: Laurie, tell me about Uh, listeners have heard you referred to it a couple times. I mean, and I also referred to it. is, ants Institute

Laurie: Yes.

Bill: re a word that means something. What does it mean?

Laurie: Yeah. Uh, compressions is a moment when something completes and you can see it in our logo of like a spiral around and then something going up and down. a moment fully completes, it compresses and settles, and

Marty: Interesting.

Laurie: the idea of healing in the system like. You know, bill, you were talking earlier about, I, I need to witness the part that is stuck in that past experience to unburden it. The witnessing is like a missing piece of that moment. We need the whole story to be told before it can complete have its compressions moment and settle into the system.

Bill: Thank you for that. Alright, so tell me about the program.

Laurie: Yeah, so I'm a business partner with Jennifer Baldwin and it is her, um, like life project and brainchild from so many different areas of experience. she's three certified IFS therapists and, and among many other things. we do work on training people on practices in the inner world. So IFS and related modalities and consciousness medicines. And so we have, um, currently we have running, um, fundamentals of the inner world, which is, and material level one equivalent. and we have co consultation groups for people. We have a ketamine IFS consultation group, somatic IFS, and just a, a regular deepen from where you are. Consultation group. we've got trainings on ketamine coming up. There's um, gonna be a new one that's not on the books yet and we have the flagship program, the Heart of Healing, year Long psychedelic apprenticeship, IFS and psychedelic apprenticeship program. And so.

Bill: should.

Laurie: Yeah,

Bill: should uh, consider Crescent Crescent Program? Are these people that are already trained in the IFS model and wanna expand into these different areas that you just listed?

Laurie: well if you're already trained, you, you absolutely can jump on in, and trained through any, any avenue. It's not only level one, but there's a lot of other, um.

Bill: I.

Laurie: Good trainings that supply that, that area of knowledge. Um, if you don't have the IFS training, you can take our fundamentals course and get up to speed on that. Um,

Bill: So anybody that wants to learn about IFS and use it in their own practice to help other people, would that be appropriate for

Laurie: exactly. Yeah. People who are using it a bit beyond personal practice, people are using it for others in a coach capacity, therapist capacity, and so on.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: Yeah.

Bill: And again, the name of the PRO program is con, well, it's the Congress Compressions Institute and then you have several programs. And the website for is Institute is what?

Laurie: Re institute.com.

Bill: Uh, congrats. C-O-N-C-R-E-S-C-E-N-C-E, and check show notes.

Laurie: Yeah.

Bill: Laurie, anything else that you want our listening audience to know or me or Marty to know before we say goodbye?

Laurie: Well, stay tuned. I've got some ideas for, for groups, um, that I'm, uh, getting ready to launch. I've got, I'm getting shooting some YouTube videos, getting ready to put stuff on my channel and so, um, look for new materials soon. Also, I just.

Bill: to get those links to us.

Laurie: Yeah, will do. And uh, also I got accepted to level three and I'm taking that in August. So

Marty: Awesome.

Laurie: up.

Bill: Who's the, uh, trainer?

Laurie: See Psyches

Bill: for the six? Oh, lucky girl.

Laurie: people say that

Bill: Cease.

Laurie: forward to

Bill: Okay, Laurie, thanks. So great to see you.

Laurie: Yeah, you too. Thank you, bill. Thank you Marty. I appreciate y'all.

Marty: Good to see you. Bye.