Dr. Marie Feuer

Bill: Hi everybody. My name is Bill Tierney. I'm his Compassionate Results Coach and certified IFS practitioner. My co-host is Dr. Martin Kettelhut, and this is the True You Podcast. We have a special guest today, Dr. Marie Feuer. Am I saying your name correctly? Hi.

Marie: It is actually Feuer only if you speak German. Would you know that?

Bill: Okay, well now I know it and I don't, and I speak a little German apparently. So this is Dr. Marie Feuer. Let me introduce Marie from the bio that she, uh, provided Marie transitioned from full-time activist into a journey of recovery and spirituality. Her transformation began with the living theater. Where trans performances awakened her to the power of energy activism with the American Indian Movement at Wounded Knee, connected her with medicine people and mystical events, eventually leading her to mentors in metaphysics and remote healing. I. Beginning in 1990, she taught gang members as a professor. Before moving onto colleges with at-risk students over 15 years, she engaged in adult children of alcoholics and and dysfunctional families. 12 step work and inner child healing, evolving into eter internal in eternal, maybe two internal family systems. IFS was more than 12 years in the Mystic Arts and psychology. Marie now continues to integrate IFS into her spiritual practice. Welcome Marie.

Marie: Thank you for having me, both of you Appreciate it greatly.

Bill: We were just having a little bit of fun before I hit record and then stopped stop the recording and started again as we were trying to fi figure out the technical stuff and, and we have now deemed Marty as our technical expert for the show. Marie and I met, I think probably through parts work practice. Marie, is that, does that sound right?

Marie: We did what a, what a blessing to find those groups. You are doing a great service with those groups, bill.

Bill: Well, I want you to know that I wouldn't be doing it unless I just loved it and I do. I just love it almost every time. There are days when my parts are up and I, I couldn't find my authentic self if I had both hands. Yeah. I. But most of the time I just, I just absolutely love it. Love it. So we come together through IFS and I told you, Marie about our podcast, and you said, Hey, I wanna talk, I wanna be on the show. So we, we, here we are. And Marty just now met you. Marty, do you have any questions off the top of your head for us to get started? If not, I can go with it. Well, let's, we'll just pick one and pick one, and I'm sure it'll go great from there.

Marty: Well, I was, I was very curious as I was reading your bio about remote healing

Marie: Oh yeah.

Marty: you know, take me as a complete naive about this, because, I mean, I know that it happens, but I don't understand how.

Marie: Oh boy. Yeah. Um, I. I think, um, one of the things I wanna talk about with that is what's happening right now, uh, which I have mentioned to many people, which is the telepathy tapes, which is the newest material coming out on non-speaking, uh, what we're labeled autistic people. But now they're thinking maybe they have apraxia, which is a disconnect between the mind and the body. And it turns out that these guys, now that they've been given speaking boards, some of them are punching out letters, others are tapping on tablets they're getting tested under extremely rigorous conditions, uh, for having 100% accurate telepathy, telepathic communication between themselves and their caregivers. The speech pathologists, school psychologists, and teachers, it's. Groundbreaking for me because I've been in the closet my whole life because I can do this weird stuff. And the seventies when I was young, I was afraid it would get me in a mental institution if I talked about it. And then when I became a professor. Uh, or worked in any legitimate setting, I was afraid I would get fired. And it's why be never became a clinical therapist was I could lose my license. And so, sure enough, with these, this telepathy experiments, um, some people are coming forward saying they have indeed lost their jobs or their license for a couple of years for bringing this material forward that people have known about since the nineties. So. The telepathy population, the autistic population is also talking about that they work with energy. They meet each other in a place called The Hill, which is like a quantum field. And, um, a couple of them have talked about healing themselves of cancer. One has healed themselves of cancer. Another one talked about, his caregiver saw a, uh, replicate of himself above. the person the autistic person said, that's my light body you to bring it back into my body. And they did that by found finding a note that vibrated with the light body, a note that vibrated with the physical body and brought it back together. this sounds all pretty woo woo. So I wanna back this up a

Bill: Well before, before you back up or go forward, let me just, just first of all, thank you for introducing me to the te Tele telepathy tapes and the, I believe that the link that you sent me was for the Joe Rogan show, and Joe was clue.

Marie: That's the,

Bill: was absolutely clueless. He, he, he was not prepared at all for the conversation that he had with, what's the woman's name,

Marie: Kai,

Bill: Kai. He.

Marie: I forget her last

Bill: Yeah, so at one point in that, at, in the interview, Joe can't believe that that, that people are having a problem with, with, with people that are spelling in his mind. He's thinking, he, she's talking about regular spelling. He doesn't understand until she explains to him that spelling means that these nons speakers have to spell in in order to talk. They have to use these devices to spell. But my, my interruption, and I'm so sorry for it, but at the same time, I wanna just jump in and say thank you, thank you, thank you. As I'm listening to you describe. The t, the telepathy tapes and what you've learned about it. I'm four episodes into the telepathy tapes now, and if I didn't have sessions to do with clients and and podcasts to record, I'd be listening to them nonstop. They're fascinating.

Marie: Absolutely And to me it's like, uh, I am, you know, it must be similar to, you know, trans and non-binary people finally being able to come outta the closet, like, and just breathe. That's, that's how I feel because that world of energy is so real to me. It has a long history. Um, if you wanna understand it. Like from the quantum physics and quantum mechanics point of view, there's an astounding book called The Field by Lynn McTaggart. is a journalist, so she writes about quantum physics as a journalist. So it's exciting, it's storytelling, and it's a ton of facts. Otherwise, you are slogging through equations and concepts that will give you a migraine headache. she talks about. The field, uh, like we know experiments have been done, for example, that a rabbit had her babies taken away, flown to different cities. She was hooked up to, uh, an EEG machine, I believe. I don't know exactly what machine it was that measures brainwaves. And as they euthanized each of her babies, she registered it

Bill: Oh.

Marie: they were in different cities. And that's a bunny. That is a bunny, right?

Marty: goodness.

Marie: Uh, yeah. Well, animal experiments, by the way, I am totally against them, but it's a dramatic example and the telepathy tapes have more and more examples. But in my twenties, I met. These, this couple in their seventies. And my parents were pretty dysfunctional. So I adopted these guys, as I call them, my spiritual parents. They were my mom and dad, and they were 70 in 1970. So they had been doing, uh, metaphysics, not new age, but metaphysics for 40 years. And they had a radios machine. Now radios machine came out of kind of the Tesla engineering. Work and they were outlawed seized by the American mental, uh, medical Association and destroyed for being fake. And I was like, okay, if they're fake, then why destroy them? You know, just leave 'em out there. They don't do crap, just, you know, make it illegal to use them. But so they had saved one, and that's why I first learned remote healing was they would take a fingernail or hair and put it, uh, uh, under this machine, and then this machine would broadcast energy to that sample. So the energy was sent to. The matching energy, which is your body. I started to experience all these incredible physical healings, and it was just mind blowing, absolutely mind blowing to me. So, uh, then Walter, the, my, my spiritual dad, he would, I would lay on a, on a massage table. He would sit next to me and he would just radiate energy. And it was like a psychedelic trip. mean, and no music. Nothing was happening. I wasn't hypnotized. I was just like, what the heck? And he would see things with me. He would say, okay, over to the left, there's a space. We're gonna just kind of, sort of flow into that space. He wouldn't tell me what I was feeling or what to expect. It wasn't a guided anything. Every once in a while he would just say something and he'd go, okay, that was good. We're gonna just allow this next thing to happen. And then when it was over, uh, sometimes I'd have friends over there too, and they would tell me to go look in the mirror and it was almost like the bones in my face had moved. I, I look completely different. So that was my, I guess my getting validated that this invisible world actually existed. There was no one telling me what to experience, what to feel, what to expect. They didn't charge money for this. They were retired. They had a little meditation practice that they charged a little money for 'cause they hired people to like run some reports or something, like $10 a month or something and they worked out of their house. this is what a grassroots shaman should be, by the way. Like we should have medicine people everywhere. they don't have to hang out a flag and go, uh, you know, I'm an IFS counselor. I'm a 12 step this, I'm a remote healer. I, I'm, I just think it's a shame that we have to do that. So going back to your question, let me ask you this. Have you felt, when you are in self

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marie: that's when we're really hooked up.

Marty: Right,

Marie: How the hell do you explain that to anybody? First of all, if they haven't felt it right. I, I don't know how to explain that. I know how to create an experience for that to happen. Let me ask you this also, then, when you've had a big conversation with a part or parts there has been some agreement or waking up, and then that self energy has come in and all the parts involved and self is there, and they all kind of go, ah, and then the next days are you not completely different.

Marty: Yes. Right. Yeah. Everything's altered.

Marie: and you didn't quote, do anything except have a conversation or have a focus or allow yourself to feel or experience something that was literally out of your control other than we give permission for it to come up. We allow the voices to speak. allow ourselves to feel, we allow that self energy to come in. That in a sense was remote healing that you just did on yourself. We could call it energy healing,

Marty: I see. I see. So it's about connecting with this field, if we use McTaggart's

Marie: right.

Marty: and in that field, these connections get made. So that, that, that's very helpful because I, I, I do think actually that a lot more people have had glimpses of that experience,

Marie: Yes,

Marty: done

Marie: yes.

Marty: work. Right. So by some means they've, they've tapped into that. They've had, they, so I think to, to reference the field I think is very helpful.

Marie: Yes, and psychedelics are a great shortcut for that. And I always say to people, show you what you can do on your own. Because for a drug to work, we have to have a neuroreceptor for that drug to work. how drugs work. We have. similar chemical in our body and we have a receptor. instead of producing our own chemical that goes into the receptor, we can take something that M mocks up that same feeling, like opioids, for example. We have endorphins, right?

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Marie: it's. hit that same psychedelic feeling in meditation or energy work, but it's much easier to just eat something or snort something or however you take the psychedelic. But what I tell people, it's a tool to show you what you can do on your own. So that's what you wanna cultivate. That's like giving you a preview. I don't think just using psychedelics for that is appropriate. I don't think it's, it's good. It's, um, it's a tool. And I, I think everything that's a tool, we wanna use it when we need it, but we don't wanna use it all the time. We wanna, we use tools to get better for ourself as much as possible.

Marty: Right, right. Got it.

Marie: So the most extreme example I had, by the way of remote healing, and this is I think really helped me understand the telepathy tapes and also when self-energy comes in with the IFS work. Uh, every time I've done IFS with somebody, it's, they all say the same thing. That it was like a psychedelic trip. It was so real in this internal space that doesn't exist. And then when they come back into the room and they're different that I say to people, could, could you describe what happened? And the answer's always no, the most. Wonderful. I don't even know how to explain this. Was this guy I met named William, who worked with Matrix Energetics. Matrix Energetics does this chiropractic work with muscle testing and it's pretty lighthearted and the guy laughs and jokes and, and they basically just talked to the body then the body relaxes and fixes itself. There's no bone crunching, no nothing. It, and you look at it and go. This can't possibly be real. I mean, it just, it's not serious enough. And you know, my that goes, this should be very serious healing stuff, and it's not. And it looks very easy. So I watched this for a while and then someone told me about this guy William, who nobody knows what he does for a living, but he doesn't charge any money. He only answers your call if he feels like you should be calling him. He will ask you what's wrong, and he'll say, after about five seconds, he's like, that's enough. That's enough. Like he doesn't want you to get wrapped up in your story. And then he takes about 30 seconds he goes, okay. And hangs up the phone and whatever problem you're having is gone. So. This happened a few times and I'm like, okay, this is really wild. 'cause you know, radionics machines, I can see meditating, connecting with the energy. But this guy, and I could hear he is at work, he's not, you know, in a crystal cave and, you know, eating Himalayan salt, you know, he just somewhere at work in New York City. So one day, uh, I went with him, uh, on the phone and I, he said, uh. why he said that. He said, come into the field with me. And I instantly knew what he meant, even though I didn't know what he meant. And I was in place that I can't describe. It's probably like what the telepathic community calls the hill. But I was in this plane, like an a, a plane where there was nothing and everything. And he said to me, holy shit, do you see where you are? And I was like, yeah, like I'm all, I, I go here, you know, I've gone here a lot, never with anybody else. he goes, I've never seen this before. Like, you know, this just doesn't happen. And, then he took me. Through something, I, I can't even describe it where it's, it's just like, there's all these atoms and molecules and we just went, okay, no, no more backache and no more feeling toxic and we're just gonna erase this and move this around and, uh, see you later. And he hung up the phone and my body was completely different. Every problem I had was gone. And so I called the person who recommended me and I said, has William ever, does he say those things like, wow, look where we are, like. You know, he doesn't strike me as that kind of person. He said, no, you know, I've known him for years. I've never heard him say that, that that was an important experience for me because it was another human with me in an inexplicable situation worked. And I don't have a science community to back up anything that happened until I see these same descriptions coming out of the telepathy tapes.

Bill: Yeah.

Marie: Right.

Marty: That's telepathy tapes. Um, is that something that we can put in the show notes that anybody could access?

Bill: I've already got it. Ari, we'll put it in the show notes. Yeah. And make,

Marie: listen to the podcast, but the actual, uh, website has videos, also video clips, so yeah. And

Bill: And, and, and before you move on, Maria, Maria, I just wanted to check, did you say Matrix? M-A-T-R-I-X? Energetics.

Marie: Yes.

Bill: did you say out of Boston?

Marie: Yeah,

Bill: Uh,

Marie: I last saw was Boston,

Bill: I don't know whether it.

Marie: on YouTube and I mean, you look at it and just go, this isn't real. It's just a bunch of people laughing and, and being funny and sort of slapping someone on the back and all of a sudden somebody's hip is straightened out and they're, they're walking off the state. It, it looks like faith healing almost, you know, except instead of going, Jesus, save us, they're laughing.

Bill: this is Dr. Richard Bartlett. Does that sound right?

Marie: I think that's him.

Bill: Okay.

Marie: seen him in

Bill: Okay.

Marie: yeah. Cool stuff. Very cool stuff.

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: Kind of experiences. Contribute to your understanding of the true you to get back to the podcast theme.

Marie: right. So. Where I was, what I was gonna talk about, I think still relates to this, which is, uh, Bob Falconer saying there are entities, I mean, Dick Schwartz says this too, but he tiptoes around it, but Bob's like, oh yeah, that's just out there. So I'm like, phew. Okay. So I see entities for example, right? People come to me in meditation class and they are covered with creatures. is enough to get you institutionalized. Right? But no, people are now saying there are. that are not of your system, maybe not of this galaxy, maybe not of this dimension. And there are spirit guides also, right? So all of this was a part. There are, I don't know if the, these are parts of me or part of my higher self, my true self-led energy. This, this is what I don't, I'm not completely sure of this with IFS, nor do I really care because it's more just of a labeling, right? here I am, I am like a normal person. I was a professor, et cetera, and I don't tell people I see entities that I see their future when I'm talking to them. So like, I, you know, would be somewhere and somebody says, me and my husband, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm sitting there going, oh my God, in three months you're divorcing. So instead I have to go. I love your dress. And Oh, great, you're going to Mexico. That's wonderful. I have to take that other information and just, you know, duct tape my mouth shut or, and distract myself. So how can I find my true self if that is something that I do naturally and have done naturally my whole life? And yet when I'm in public, I have to hide it for fear that I will be, uh, face consequences. being like that. Right? even to the point that I had, I learned this decades ago that I had a friend, she called me up, she was in a new relationship, she knew that I did this weird stuff and she kind of tolerated it, you know, that was sort of how it goes a lot. she said, oh, I'm with this person and yay. And you know, how long is it gonna last? And without thinking I said eight years, uh, I'm thinking that's a good run. Eight years. So, uh, she was furious, furious, furious. And I, we kind of partied ways. She called me eight years later to say, you remember what you told me? And I'm like, how could I forget? Like, I'm never doing that again. You know, I'm never making that casual comment again. and she said, we're breaking up. been eight years and you are right. And it's perfect. She, you know, went a really different direction and I'm in a different direction and it, it's great, but I couldn't hear it at the time and I said, I know it was really inappropriate of me to say that to an I, you know, in other words, I should have lied and said forever or Don't ask if you don't wanna

Bill: Yeah. Yeah.

Marty: Right. Something like that.

Marie: So here's the, here's me myself trying to be my true self. And yet in society I am not normal. yet I'm not new age, running around playing sound bowls all the time and living in the basement and wearing $300 yoga outfits. So I'm a little prejudiced against the new

Bill: You're, you're a little new age sacrilegious, I think.

Marie: You think so? IFS has been massively important, not only because I, first of all, I found it by myself and then I found out it existed like I was already doing IFS with people. Because it had grown out of inner child and self parenting, except I was finding there weren't just inner children there. There were ancestors there, there were inner teenagers and inner gangster, you know, young adults and inner grandfathers. And so I just went with all of that. And then somebody said to me, you're doing IFS, you? And I said, what is that? And then I went back to look it up and went, oh yeah, I am doing IFS. I've been doing it for years. Woo hoo. So, um, that says to me also how I almost wanna use the word, how right it is that it just showed up in our society right now. Like it, it's showing up spontaneously, if that makes sense.

Bill: As,

Marie: Dick found it

Bill: yeah, in the form of IFS. Is that, yeah.

Marie: the form of IFS, that it just, you know, I found it, it, and how Dick came to it, and Bill a little of your history, you told me it's like this, the, you know, it was inner work already listening to those voices, the people who were going in that direction. I had done Fritz Pearls type of work with the empty chairs years before that. And then in, uh, a CA, the, you know, self parenting work was phenomenal, but the. A couple things with IFS is that it's so accessible is huge. You know, it's, it's just out there. There's a good and bad side to that. Good is we can all do it. You can do it once you, you know, if you don't have a lot of trauma, you can do it yourself. If you have trauma, it may not be a good idea to do it yourself, especially in the beginning. Uh, the, the yucky side of it is that. Like when Reiki became popular, all of a sudden, like I became a reiki master, I paid 20 bucks and took a, took something online. was nonsense. Absolute nonsense. So the bad side of IFS might be that a lot of people who done a lot of work on themselves can take a workshop and get certified and hang out a shingle,

Bill: Well, let's, let's get, let's, let's back that up a little bit because that's not, I don't, I don't know of anybody that can go to a workshop for IFS and get certified. The, there's, there's, to be clear, the IFS Institute is the only. Organization that can, that can issue a certification

Marie: Officially.

Bill: and, and

Marie: Yes.

Bill: Sure. So anybody can say, here's my program and I'm, I'm gonna certify you in it. But, but when it comes to the internal family systems model, nobody can be certified, uh, at least not officially. They can't be officially certified as a therapist unless they've gone through. At least one level of training and x number of hours and, and consultation, supervision and all that.

Marie: right,

Bill: I, by the way, was certified as a practitioner before IFS changed routes and decided that they were no longer gonna do that. Fortunately, they, they, with, they stay within integrity though, and they allow me to continue to re-certify as, as a, as a practitioner. But you're right there, there's a big concern. And, and the institute, the IFS Institute is very concerned about this, that.

Marie: Yes,

Bill: That anybody can say, I'm gonna train you in the IFS model and not, you know, there's no guarantee that the training that a person's gonna get is actually valid training that will will help them to facilitate with integrity.

Marie: But it's true for so many things, not just IFS. So it's, it's not just a concern I have with IFS. Like, uh, I find that many people become therapists who have done very little internal work on themselves, and I think it's really hard to find a good therapist for that reason. uh, you know, it's not just IFS, it's a same thing. A lot of people become pastors and priests and spiritual people, and when I look into their lifestyle or their spiritual practice. It's not in alignment with the work that they're going after. On my more cynical days or my more cynical parts, have seen a lot of people become therapists rather than going to therapy themselves, which is what they should have done first. You know, so it's kind of, uh, munchhouse by proxy or something, you know, where my mother was like that. And a lot of friends of mine got into recovery and became therapists, I don't know, years later they kind of found out that didn't really fit them, but it kept them as a way to feel their feelings without having to do a lot of the deep work themselves. So, I, I have that question mark. Not just, I shouldn't just point out IFS. Um, but when anything becomes commercial or popular or big, is what happens. And look, this is the new age industry. In the old days, if you had a spiritual gift, you ran into a medicine person, you found a teacher, it, the, the universe opened those doors. Now, anybody can go to any workshop and get certified for anything by anybody in the new age community, and you have no idea what they've been trained in. Zero. It's crazy. I, I find it terrifying. I guess I say that too because I see the damage in the new age industry, which is a lot of intending and manifesting. So if your life isn't good and perfect, and, uh, your weight isn't good and your spouse isn't good, and your job isn't good, you're having negative thoughts, you're not working hard enough and you know you're manifesting this bad stuff and you need more workshops. And that is the cult of the new age. And it is a, as far as I'm concerned now, it acts like a religious cult now, where with rules and regulations that if you don't follow them, that's why you're not getting the results you wanna get. this is the beauty of IFS because there is no outside ruling force here. no way, there's no results to get. With IFS, it's conversation what happens, happens. What ha, what the results you get is the next step. this is where you got in this conversation now we're gonna wait and see how different you are and then we're gonna wait and see what the next conversation is. So no therapist is telling you what issue to work on, what wellness looks like for you in this particular part, no solution. To me, the beauty of IFS is you really needs someone. If you're working with a facilitator, someone helping you is they just really need to know how to ask great questions and that that's not just, I shouldn't say just 'cause like to me, bill, you are a phenomenal practitioner. It's very hard for me to find people to work with because I have a lot of experience, a lot of education. I'm smart, I'm intuitive, and so I, I need someone who doesn't just slap on the method, like peanut butter, you know? I need someone who, who knows it well enough to not use it, if that makes sense. You know, like when someone's a really good cook, they throw away the cookbook and they just go, I'm just gonna throw a little paprika in here and it's perfect. And how did they know that? It's because they know food and taste and stuff enough to do that. And to me, bill you, that's who you are. You have that. Talent, so I shouldn't say with IFS, you just need someone to ask questions. I would say the great quality of an IFS practitioner is their ability to not only be educated and trained, but intuitive enough to know what to ask

Bill: That took a while. That took a while. I, and there's some irony in what you're saying here. First of all, thank you for the compliment. That's a high compliment coming from you. Thank you very much.

Marie: you are

Bill: And,

Marie: Gift to me. I'm telling

Bill: and if I back up, uh, what you were saying two or three minutes ago about that, uh, there's no result to get with IFS, so Marty and I are in the results business. And, uh, I specialize in using IFS to get results. So, uh, there's a little bit difference in, in my perspective here about how to use IFS to actually get results.

Marie: But let me ask you this.

Bill: Yeah,

Marie: Uh, 'cause I think we're all exactly on the same

Bill: I think so too. Oh, two,

Marie: How do you u and I think this is important for people to hear,

Bill: yeah,

Marie: how do you use IFS to quote, get results?

Bill: people. Y.

Marie: how you

Bill: Yeah, so, and

Marie: I agree with you.

Bill: thanks for the question because I love this question. It's something I've put a lot of thought into. In fact, for the last, I would say three years or so, ever since I recognized that I came out of my IFS training using IFS very much as a therapist would. Uh, that there was something missing. And what was missing was the focus on on results. So the question for me was, well, how, I mean, I, something intuitively tells me that IFS is the most powerful tool that a coach can have in their toolbox. But how do I both use IFS, which as you say, is not attached to an agenda or an outcome to help people. To advance their own agenda and their outcome. And it seemed like an impossible question. Uh, but what I found was that we start. By recognizing that people come to coaching because they're influenced by parts of them that think that they need to have a particular outcome or advanced particular agenda. So we get curious about the part that brings the agenda, brings the outcome, desire, and then we we get to know them well enough and build enough trust between the client and that part of them to. Uh, earn their trust and, and make a request. And that is okay. We know what you want. Now. Can we temporarily suspend that agenda so that we can create enough space inside in order to get to know all the other parts that necessarily will need to be on board and see what you part that brought the agenda and all the other parts can learn about each other and, and yourselves and see if you still want to achieve this.

Marie: Yes, but that right there to see if you still want it. So you get you, you find the result also, as opposed to a lot of people say, here's the result and I'm gonna help you get there. And the tagline with that is no matter what,

Bill: Yeah,

Marie: you're talking about getting

Bill: I.

Marie: and sometimes what a person comes to see you for completely changes. Right.

Bill: A good example of that would be someone comes and says, I'm having trouble in my marriage. I wanna be a better communicator. I wanna be more loving. I, I wanna be a better husband. Uh, okay, great. So that's our, that's our outcome, that's our agenda. Now that, that same person months later, after getting to know, uh, a predominance of their parts that are, that are activated around the relationship. They get some clarity and from a self energized and a self-led place, now they say, you know, I'm not so sure that I even wanna be married anymore. Or they say, you know, I don't know that there's anything wrong with who I am as a husband. Um, I, I think I'm just going to, I'm just gonna be authentic and just let it play out. But see, see where it's gonna go. But, but they're happier. They're, they're more fulfilled.

Marie: Yes,

Bill: And they're more aligned with their inner guidance that that pushes, that not pushes, but points them in the direction of what they should be doing, who, who they should be with and should their lives.

Marie: And see mo the, the, the, the kind of the, I don't know, the unspoken flow of this is that. I think people would come to you and think, I'm gonna get results. And they're thinking, I'm gonna make money. I'm gonna resolve my marriage. I'm gonna, but then they shift through your work enough instead get what they authentically need and want,

Bill: Yeah, and you know what? That is almost 100% of the time. What it boils down to is they want to be authentically themselves.

Marie: Yes, exactly. people don't put that together. When you say, I, you know, I get, get people results. you, I think not only do you get get results, but you educate people as to what results really are. Just like you had told me a story about, you know, and I've done this too, where we get the results saying, you know, I wanna make this much money doing this, and then we get it and we go, I hate it. Like it didn't do anything for me.

Bill: I told you that story

Marie: yes,

Bill: Yeah.

Marie: the, and the brilliance of the work of IFS and getting results is that we don't talk about. results, we just go, okay, that's where you wanna go. And then we know there's a part that has a big say about that, and now we have to find out if that's really in alignment with all the parts and with the authentic self. But you can't say that to people when they're first coming in. They wouldn't understand it first of all. Right?

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: And they wouldn't pay for

Marie: They would never,

Bill: Yeah.

Marie: never, Like on a, on a really different type of example. My, the most extreme version I had of this is a woman I worked with who was like dating the Prince of Monaco and riding around a Mercedes and she was working in high finance in Manhattan and snorting cocaine. And, you know, she talked to me like, am I gonna meet this guy? I'm I gonna get this job? I'm gonna make this money. I sort of helping her along with, at what I would call her parts that were running her ragged into this. High-end world and kept saying to her, in two years, your life's gonna be extremely different. And she wanted to know what that was. And I said, if I told you, you wouldn't believe it and you wouldn't like it, so let's just leave it. And after about a year, she disappeared on me. And about a year after that, she called me and she was now living in Venice Beach. Teaching yoga. She was a vegan learning astrology and living with this like shabby guy who had eight large dogs that ran the house and the house.

Bill: Hey, I, I wanna just acknowledge a couple things here. Uh, I'm kind of feeling like I'm leaving Marty out of the conversation, and so I wanna give him an opening to come in with whatever's on his mind. I also wanna acknowledge we've got about 13, 14, 15 minutes left here before we begin to wrap up our episode. So, Marty, here's an opening for you. What would you like to say or know?

Marty: Well, I don't feel left out by the

Bill: Oh, good.

Marty: All my parts, all my parts are just buzzing with excitement and, and having a great time. Um. And I, I wanted to also like to what you were just discussing, I'm not even, I'm not an IFS practitioner, so I, I am a executive coach to mostly financial services people. Right. And I would say the same thing. And I, and I do in, in certain contexts, say the same thing that. That I'm not selling results now I what, and I would describe it very similar to the way that you guys have, but just for variety. You know, I think it's about getting, guiding a person back to discovering the true self and. Anything's possible. You know, it's, it's like might still want to double their income or fix their marriage. That might still be there, but it's gonna, it is going like be articulated in a whole different way. It's not gonna occur in this sort of goal oriented, you know, striving, achievement oriented. Um, performative way. It's gonna have a whole different look and feel to it. And so there's this trust that has to be built with a client to have them realize that this kind of work, getting to know your, your truth is, is the best way it, it is the most sustainable. exciting way to get whatever result you want. Right. And so I'm not doing it through IFS, but I, but I'm doing that same sort of thing. It's, it's all about getting back to the true you. And one of the things that people discover, which this goes back to the first part of our conversation, is that the true me is not just this material object on the planet. And we've all got access to the what we, you know, some people would say is miraculous, right? But once, once they start being tune with that and practicing at it, right? They discover like, well, the true me isn't just this biological thing. That's like a, like a space suit I wear for the time being and there's a lot more to me, and they wanna hang out in that, in, in

Marie: right.

Marty: part of them a lot more.

Marie: How did you end up partnering with Bill?

Marty: We met in a, in a mastermind group.

Marie: Wow. Okay.

Marty: That's another example. You know, it's a, it's a very ready example for people to see

Marie: Yeah,

Marty: mastermind. And I, this is, you know, this is a, like, like a, um, like a third grade version of the field

Marie: right.

Marty: a mastermind. Is access to greater compassion, greater wisdom than

Marie: Hi.

Marty: of us have separated off in our silos. We come together and this something happens between us in the shared mind, the Mastermind. That would never happen, you know, if we weren't together. And that's been so exciting that Bill and I were like, well, let's keep talking. Let's keep working together. that's how we know each other. And that's I think a very sort of, like I say, third grade or pedestrian example of this other level that we can be functioning at. So I'm curious, um, about, why it is now that. If FS has become, is this a gift that you know, that we need to recognize that, oh, this is arising in our society now because we need this and here's why. Or is it just like, you know, the new age stuff like it, it's just flaring up like foia, but it's gonna go away, you know?

Marie: I can just tell you my opinion and, and, and I also have a wait and see. Attitude. But what's so interesting to me is that, um, UAP, unidentified anomalous phenomena, which is used to be UFOs, and now we know that there are. Stations, alien stations underwater with 40 foot craft that move at like 50 miles an hour underwater, which should be impossible. there's this guy, Luis Elizondo, who was the fourth highest ranking member in the government who could push the red button to start a nuclear war. That's how high up in the government he was. he quit and has started publishing UAP information. He quit saying the government and all the agencies, there's like 17 intelligence agencies. I didn't know there was that many. all have bits and pieces. They're all hiding it. he said. Uh, aliens are here. There's at least four races that he knows of. There's biologics, there's machines, we have it, there's technology, and he started a private company to make all of this information public because he thinks that the citizens in the United States are being treated like. You know, uh, disabled children, like we we're not gonna tell them this, and yet we all know it's there. So he's gone public and he, he had published a book. He had to get it cleared through the Pentagon. He hasn't told probably 80% of what he really knows. Um, so here's UAP information comes out. His, his interviews are. Mind blowing 'cause No woo woo. No, I, you know, I'm talking to the aliens and I'm their ambassador. Nope. He's a straight lace government, military dude.

Marty: Wow.

Marie: Then IFS comes out that says, you know, yep, there's entities from other places and there's spirit guides, and so we know. things exist in this world for sure. And then the telepathy tapes come out. This is all within a very short period of years, and

Marty: How

Marie: so. I'm just going, what the heck is going on? And I don't be, you know, when the new age says the harmonic convergence is coming, and the Vedic people say, we're in the Kali Yuga, which is the great time of destruction and rebuilding. I'm like, okay, I'm not feeling it. This, I'm feeling three things that are making the, the unseen world and the unbelievable, very grounded and believable says to me that, yeah, maybe there is. A turning point coming here in human evolution and turning points are messy. Usually they're not smooth and wonderful. They're always, you know, like, you gotta bulldoze first and then what comes next. Or if you don't bulldoze, you know, you at least make a giant mess to begin with. So officially, I have no idea, but I feel that, that there's definitely something going on. And if it's not, I at least feel. Less frightened to show up in the world. Like I don't have to hide as much. 'cause I can point to stuff now and say, well, IMS says this, and, you know, um, the telepathy tape says this. So I am no longer ill hallucinating or a weirdo. I do also think that, you know, when I was in 12 Step, I just, I. I prayed, I wish that everybody would go to 12 step meetings learn, um, inventory and amends, accountability and responsibility. and, and higher power. Like if, imagine if every citizen learned that, well then here comes IFS doing even bigger and better version of that.

Marty: it is, right. I'm also an a CA by the way, and have been for 10 years. And so when I started to learn about IFS through Bill, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is an even,

Marie: right.

Marty: yeah.

Marie: Yeah,

Bill: I do actually have a, a little slightly, uh, different, uh, take on why I think now at, at least with IFS. Um, I, by the way, I just ordered eminent by Luis LS Elizondo. Uh,

Marie: you're gonna be so

Bill: I'll be listening to that. Uh, and that's the one on,

Marie: speaker Too on podcasts. If

Bill: yeah.

Marie: Him on a

Bill: Oh yeah.

Marie: interesting

Bill: Many people have him on the show. And, and so here's my theory about the same time I got sober, early eighties, uh, Richard Swartz is coming outta college and he, uh, is beginning his therapy practice as a SI family systems therapist. And, uh, he begins to learn from his clients that there are these parts that people have parts and, and he thought they were crazy. He thought that they were mentally diagnosed, noticeable and, and, uh, mental illness type di diagnosis and thought he was way in over his head, but kind of felt himself stuck, like, who do I send these people to? And, and I, I really wanna be able to help them. So he started, started asking questions and getting curious and noticing that, that between clients, they were all kind of saying the same thing. They're all pointing to having parts and, and, and he learned from them. So over time he started. Speaking to others about what he was discovering in his practice and this new theory that he was developing for the Internal Family Systems model. And it started making sense for a lot of people. And over time, uh, he would, they would do workshops and trainings and that sort of thing, and they would have to just work their asses off just to get anybody to show up for these trains because it was just off the beaten path and.

Marie: Wow.

Bill: And, and so when I was introduced to IFS in 2016, if on in that year, if I had wanted to get into an IFS training, no problem, I would've gotten into the next one available by 2019. I had to wait three months to get in. And then by 2021, by the time I was certified, there was a waiting list of somewhere between five and 10,000 people, including therapists and practitioners that were trying to get into the IFS model. So it just exploded, and here's why I think it did. I think it did because of 12 Step. Thank you. Bill Wilson and Bob Smith. I, the, the self-help movement that began back in the late thirties where people could take their own lives away from, uh, others that would run it for them. I. And, and say, no, I think I can do this. I think with the, with the support of 12 step of my and my community, the fellowship, the steps, my life's getting better and, and I, and, and I wanna, I want to take responsibility for it. I do wanna take this. And then there's people like me that were in 12 steps and said, and there's gotta be more. This is a great start. There's gotta be more. And so we're out here looking. We find land landmark education, the work of Byron Katie, all these self-help books, Bradshaw Inner Childbirth, A CA starts up in the early eighties. About the same time or late seventies, about the same time I got sober and about the same time Dick Schwartz gets started. So that by the time just now, 5, 6, 7 years ago, IFS has exploded because it works. It's actually a system that makes sense. It's logical, it works, and anybody can use it.

Marie: Yeah,

Bill: why I think it's showing up right now.

Marie: yeah. take it. I'll, I'll take both of those explanations.

Bill: Yeah, me too.

Marie: something, something is happening to me 'cause the wave crusted the IFS wave,

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marie: finally. Got big enough that there's, you know, so, so many people involved with

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marie: I just, I can't wait. You know, when people have asked me, students have asked me, why are you a professor? Or Why do you teach or do this stuff? And my response is, because I'm lonely. I want people, real people,

Bill: Who think like I do.

Marie: Yeah, well, or who are interesting and they're not reactive and getting triggered and, you know, and not to say if you do IFS you never reactive or trigger, but you, you handle it. It's

Bill: Okay.

Marie: of your integrated system. Instead of lashing out or shutting down or deflecting or drugging or dissociating. I just, I don't like, I am not pro-Trump, but I am friends with Trump people as long as they're really good real people. You know, I'm gonna learn from different points of view. So yeah, I'm lonely for authentic people who can be in their body and take responsibility for who they

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marie: and know what they're feeling,

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marie: and know what they're thinking and think about things and actually wanna meet other people where other people are at. You know, actually practice diversity. Diversity isn't just tolerance. Diversity is like, wow, you're so different. That's so

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marie: What do you do? How do you think? And I mean, that's how I'm with Trump. People's like, really? Why? Why do you think that way? And I, oh, that's so interesting. I, what do I don't know yet? We'll see.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marie: So I am just lonely and the more people that are doing IFS work, and what I used to say also about 12 step people is imagine a workplace where people had gone through 12 Step they've done inventory. So if you say to somebody. You know, you're being too blunt again, and because they've done inventory and all that, they go, yeah, you're right. it. No drama, no lawsuit. It's just like, oh, yeah, yeah, I do that. I'm too

Bill: Yeah, even beyond that. Yeah, you're right. And

Marie: I

Bill: thanks for pointing it out. And what was the impact on you and how can I make it right?

Marie: right. Right, exactly. You know, though, I was like, I wish everybody went to 12 step and now I wish everybody did IFS because sometimes when there are parts coming after me, I wish they knew that. 'cause I'm like, I know that's not you, but I'm, I'm gonna have to shoot the part that's coming to kill me. Right.

Bill: Listen, we do, we need to wrap up. Uh, it feels like we could keep going for 24 hours here easily.

Marie: Yeah,

Bill: Marie, thanks so much for joining us. Uh,

Marie: Well,

Bill: yeah,

Marie: Thank you. It was a pleasure to meet you Marty, and great to see you Bill,

Bill: keep doing what you're doing.

Marie: Yep, you too.

Bill: Okay.

Marie: Raise the flags.